BBB vs. SR1, SR2, SR3, Which acronym should be used? |
BBB vs. SR1, SR2, SR3, Which acronym should be used? |
Nov 2 2004, 05:01 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Well, the Shock Golves thread has a virus of conversation about this.
Table #1: SR# GENERAL ATTACK It was posed that SR1, SR2, SR3 are "established" acronyms by Shadowrun rule books and that BBB is not and that this fact alone negates BBB's use. CLAIMS #1) Table #1 claims that BBB is not efficient as a reference acronym because it only reffers to a concept of "The" core rule book while SR1, SR2, and SR3 all reffer to each rule book specified by their numerical value. #2) Other charges against the BBB from Table #1 were that it's not widely known and that it's plain "lazy" to claim it as easier to type. #3) Table #1 makes the claim that Table #2 is a group of people who believe themselves "elitist's" because of their use of the acronym BBB, or they are type 2 of the Table #2 population who are simply "ignorant". Table #2: BBB GENERAL DEFENSE BBB was defended by the stance that BBB is easier to type, that practically everyone knows what it means, and that BBB reffers to the present Source Book of the current edition of Shadowrun. CLAIMS #1) Table #2 claims that BBB and SR1, SR2, and SR3 (as a set) are two accepted acronyms and that neither of the two are better than the other. #2) SR1, SR2, and SR3 were claimed to not always be clear by Table #2 and they also admit that BBB may not be clear sometimes either. #3) Table #2 also states that many other RPG's use similar acronyms to BBB such as Warhammer's BRB (Big Red Book), and that if you were to use an acronym similar to SR1, SR2, and SR3 in a Warhammer forum (for example) that no one would know what you meant. --------------------------------- This has become a heated argument of which acronym should be used. Well...let's find out what we think. |
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Nov 2 2004, 05:06 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
I'll say my voice on this.
BBB makes sense for it's original purpose. "Big Blue Book", which reffered to the original Shadowrun core rule book for 1st edition. It makes sense to me for back then because there was only that one rule book, you couldn't really get it confused with any other core rule book and an acronym may (I haven't read 1st edition) not have been provided in the texts of the 1st edition, which isn't uncommon. As soon as Shadowrun 2nd edition came out, however, BBB (imo) became obsolete because you now had to make a clear communicable distinction between the two source books, and BBB is an acronym that didn't make such a distinction. |
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Nov 2 2004, 05:28 PM
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#3
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
I use BBB when talking about the current edition, however I use SR1 and SR2 when referring to anything in those editions. If there ever is a 4th edition, I'll likely refer to the "new" book as BBB and then add SR3 for when I refer to it specifically.
And yes, I'm lazy, BBB is easier for me to type than SR3 |
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Nov 2 2004, 05:59 PM
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#4
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
It's easier for me to type SR3, personally. Granted, I average ~110wpm when trying and somewhere around 70wpm when not caring whatsoever.
BBB is a repetitive stroke, whereas SR3 is not, and (when using homerow on QWERTY) uses different fingers for Shift, S, R and 3. Hold Shift with whichever pinkie finger you wish to use, hit S, then R, release Shift and hit 3. Relatively simple. BBB is a bit more complex. Hold shift with a respective pinkie, hit B, hit B, hit B. You either have to have your key-repeat settings way up and hold B down or hit B, release, hit, release, hit, release. Not to mention... What happens when FanPro comes out with a book whose acronym is BBB? Looks like the SR3ers win there. :P |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:04 PM
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#5
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Just when I thought acronyms couldn't cause the train wrecks that I am so constantly drawn to in these forums, they become the center of a hotly debated poll.
I support the BBB for the simple reason that I learned it as an acronym first and I use SR3 to refer to the system in a broader scope. In accordance with Nikoli, is a 4th edition does come out I would shift the BBB to the most recent edition. The flexibility of the BBB is that it can be applied to the most recent edition's core book--presuming that the core books continue to be printed with Blue or Black covers. Now I must ask, is this really the pinnacle question for our day because in all the years I've played Shadowrun, I have never seen any confusion about BBB vs SR3 and IIRC the official Shadowrun site uses BBB as a reference to the Core Rule Book. |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:12 PM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I’m down around the mere mortals with 80 words per minute whether I’m trying or not, but BBB is definitely a speedier and more natural sequence than SR3. Not that it’s better, of course.
~J |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:21 PM
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#7
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Then you must not read these forums very often. It comes up every few weeks.
And you would be wrong. Same goes for the actual Shadowrun material. |
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Nov 2 2004, 06:45 PM
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#8
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
I use BBB because otherwise without context it's hard to refer to the edition (SR3) or the core rulebook (SR3).
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Nov 2 2004, 06:51 PM
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#9
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
DR. Funk--Thanks for the clarification. I will admit that I don't troll this side of the boards a lot because as I mentioned earlier, I find that often the discussions are train wrecks waiting to happen and I just can't pull my eyes away as I watch the carnage.
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Nov 2 2004, 06:52 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I voted SR3 for clarity. Everyone who's read the books knows what it means when someone refers to "p. ###, SR3". The fact that there are at least a few people (a significant part of forum newbies, at least) that don't know what BBB stands for is enough for me to go with SR3.
When I first started following and posting on the Jive forums, I had no idea what BBB means. I asked, and got the idea that everybody knows it and it's very common to use it. So I started using it. After a few others asked about BBB, and once I realized that SR3 was both as or more common and the abbreviation used in canon, I switched back to SR3. |
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Nov 2 2004, 07:11 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Oh please. "In SR3 you can play a dwarf magician or an ork rigger." "SR3 p. XXX lists the rules for the Ares Predator." Yeah, i's really hard to distinguish between the two. :please: |
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Nov 2 2004, 07:13 PM
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#12
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
AE: I was the same way for a while. I spent quite a few days hunting tirelessly for what BBB stood for on Google. (Other than Big Buxom Blondes, heh.)
Doc: Well, it's hard if you like being ambiguous... |
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Nov 2 2004, 09:26 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
I've never used the acronym, BBB. I always thought it was less descriptive than it should have been. Its amusing that this is a hot topic though. :)
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Nov 2 2004, 09:35 PM
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#14
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I'd vote "I don't really feel very strongly either way, and I'm not sure why anyone else does," if it was an option.
I mean, really, it's not that big a deal. It's like people are running out of things to take personally and shout about, or something, and so they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to take a firm and unyielding stance about what acronym to use. Is it really worth getting excited over, what three-letter code people use on an internet site about the rulebook for the imaginary games we play? |
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Nov 2 2004, 09:58 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
When refering to the core book in just the generic sense, I use BBB. When I want to get specific, I use SR3. Considering the book is black now, either one fits.
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Nov 2 2004, 10:09 PM
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#16
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
True, however, without the context you can't tell the difference, which was my point. With BBB for the book and SR3 for the edition, there's no possibility of confusion on that matter. There is, however, possibility of confusion in the meaning of BBB. I, however, feel that this confusion is lesser than the confusion of using one acronym for two meanings. Maybe I just can't wrap my head around using one variable name for two values :) My brain is a strongly typed language :rotfl: |
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Nov 2 2004, 10:32 PM
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#17
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
I'm amazed by this conversation. Why would anyone even think to use BBB one more time after someone points out that it can be confusing to the people we most want to help?
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Nov 2 2004, 10:39 PM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Because it isn't that hard to ask for clarification when needed (or to use the Search function). BBB does, on the other hand, help to differentiate the game edition (technically designated as SR3) from the current Core Rulebook (technically designated as SR3).
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Nov 2 2004, 10:50 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,070 Joined: 7-February 04 From: NYC Member No.: 6,058 |
I generally use SR3, but I found some of the arguments against "BBB" stupid and abrasive enough I think I'll be switching just to irritate those who care about crap like this...
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Nov 2 2004, 10:51 PM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Unfortunately, you cannot Search for "BBB", since the keyword needs to be at least 4 characters long. If you have no idea what it might mean, the Search function is of little help. Since it doesn't appear on srrpg.com nor anywhere else easily visible, it can confuse people. Asking is pretty much the only option.
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Nov 2 2004, 11:10 PM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
See mmu1's post above for the reason. The more this goes on, the more I think you were completely right with your first post in the other thread. |
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Nov 2 2004, 11:22 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
I asked. Nobody answered :( Although I've played since SR1, I never really hung out on any forums before. So the acronym for Big Blue Book passed me by. When I came on here, I saw people making reference to BBB, and my first thought - and indeed, for some time - was that there was a sourcebook I'd missed. A lengthy trawl of the product lists turned up nothing. It wasn't until some considerable time had passed that I realised it meant the core rulebook (presumably Big Black Book these days :) ), and I spent a surprising number of hours trying to work out what book I'd missed. Sadly, an early post asking what the BBB was elicited no response - unusually, I have come to understand, but it was something of a downer. "If nobody cares enough to answer simple questions, I have to wonder whether I'm going to learn anything of value here" ran across my mind, I guiltily confess. Fortunately I decided to post my questions anyway, and first Fortune then Ancient History answered really quite promptly, giving me a better view of the forum's community. But for the record, I would favour SR3 over BBB. Just for clarity. |
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Nov 2 2004, 11:32 PM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Strange ... that's an unusual occurance here. |
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Nov 2 2004, 11:37 PM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It really is a scewed poll, since the choice should be either 'SR1, SR2, BBB' or 'SR1, SR2, SR3'. ;)
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Nov 3 2004, 12:04 AM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Though i understand what both mean, i prefer SR3 as it's (too me at least) Clearer to it's meaning.
Most people (i think) can guess what SR3 means BBB is a little more difficult (though not by much) |
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