BBB vs. SR1, SR2, SR3, Which acronym should be used? Options

[Raygun]

Just use this.

[Stumps]

First:

As some have considered this to be scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Really...it's not. It's actually more like a festering problem that has been put up with while it derailed thread after thread after thread since I've been on Dumpshock starting back in 2002.

I was recently reminded, and agrivated, by this issue because it again derailed a thread that had nothing to do with this issue.

Accusations that were pretty vague, like "everyone" and "no one", were being used in the arguments so I, in pure fed-up frustration, decided to host a Poll to, hopefully (please dear god please!) put an end to this by letting people see an actual voting result of the population's preference of which acronym should be used and to let people have a thread to fight over this issue in rather than derail any other good threads with this friggen issue.


Second:
I REALLY wish that a commanding member of the administraion or moderation would add the Shadowrun Reference Standard AND continually update Dumpshocks prefered standards on communicable lingos that evolve out of the Forum to the Posting Guidelines in the Sticky: Welcome! at the top of the Thread listing in this Forum so that IF such acronyms as "BBB" or other non-rule-book-claimed acronyms or phrases that had arrived out of normal human nature to shorten references with quick-lingo-acronyms come into use, people knew what the hell we were all refering to.

There are other acronyms and phrases that exist on this forum that are rather confusing unless you've asked or seen conversations on them....or bothered to read the posting guide lines.
Two quick examples (one being a real good example) are: Trolling, and Flaming.

Flaming can be figured out most of the time, and other forums use it's meaning besides dumpshock.com so a good number of people already know it thankfully.
Trolling is not widely known and tends to require some explaining and an example of it usually has to be given.

Luckily for these two examples, there is the Posting Guidelines to explain them.
I do remember a day that you had to ask what Trolling was, or see someone getting accused of it to find out.

Third:
The reason that I only listed the two options instead of a third option of "I don't care" isn't because I forgot. It's because if I added that option, it would dominate the poll and therefore negate the entire issue of getting SOME form of finality by the community on the issue.
Thus, the poll represents the question, "If you HAD to choose, which one would you?"
------

So we may think this is a silly issue that is rediculous to start a thread in. Yes we may.
But I think it's a stupid issue to post in another thread! (And yes...I HAVE POSTED IT IN ANOTHER THREAD, so I am as guilty as everyone else on that.)

[Fortune]

Trolling and Flaming are universally used on the internet, and are in no way exclusive to these forums. The fact that a person has to learn what they mean is immaterial to the fact that they do have a universally-recognised meaning, at least in the culture of the internet. BBB also does have a recognizable meanng, a meaning that has been a community standard longer than any other 'standards' in online Shadowrun discussion (with the possible excepion of the AVS ;)), and it's meaning isn't hard to grasp if one is properly properly motivated.

If the subject is brought up and answered as often as you imply, then people shouldn't have a problem discerning it's meaning from already established posts. ;)

[Stumps]

Assuming it's easy for people to know something without adding it's meaning to a listing that everyone can get to is a REAL bad thing to do.
I work in Tech Support. It is a horrible idea to make assumptions of what should or shouldn't be common sense for everyone in my experience.

Hence, this is why I would REALLY like to see an updated section of the Posting Guidelines that houses phrases and acronyms and links to the Shadowrun Reference Standard.

[Fortune]

I have nothing against adding it to any list. I just don't think being insulted for using a virtually communally-understood acronym is necessary.

[Stumps]

I cannot speak for others about their choices on how they address issues.
That is entirely every single individuals choice.

I can only state, in sum, a voice that attempts to cover most every comment made (in a recent thread) by all in favor of one or the other position on the subject. That is what I was doing with the Table #1 and Table #2.

[Fortune]

The thing is, as I pointed out earlier, the choices are flawed, as is half the premise of your first post. Nobody uses BBB in reference to either SR1 or SR2, nor have they since the release of the third edition. The acronym BBB solely refers to the current (now SR3, but may be SR4 in the future ;)) Core Rulebook.

The choices should be ...

SR1, SR2, BBB

or

SR1, SR2, SR3

[Ol' Scratch]

Unfortunately, that's not clearly defined by the use of BBB.

Example Created to Drive a Point Home: Let's say Shadowrun 4th Edition were being released a year from now. Let's also assume that Dumpshock decides not to update its forum software or trash all the old databases of messages, but the time stamps get a little screwed up (ala 26-February-02). Now let's say a few months pass. Now let's say someone shows up and uses the Search Function to look up some old discussions about whatever. When they find some of those threads, they discover references to the enigmatic BBB.

Which book is it referring to? It's impossible to tell because BBB is a useless acronym.

Like OurTeam has repeatedly stated, the use of the acronyms are supposed to help people know what you're referring to. Using a clique'y and obscure abbreviation goes directly against that purpose.

[Fortune]

Not everyone uses pages numbers when referencing the Core Rulebook (as SR3), which can also lead to misunderstanding ... 'The rules for Knowledge Skills are in SR3'.

Both are extreme examples. In the long run, it doesn't do any harm, and can foster a sense of intimacy among the forumites that bother to visit more than twice.

In reality, Dumpshock needs an FAQ! :D

[Stumps]

People not using page numbers to their book references should be shot for bad referencing amongst a forum filled with roughly a few thousand Rule Lawyers.

[Fortune]

I don't usually give page numbers (if you can't read a book, or scan it quickly for rules, you shouldn't be role-playing), because I don't have access to my books for months on end ... and I've also been known to be called a rules lawyer. ;)

[Stumps]

well, if you don't have the books that's perfectly fine.

I'm refering to those who are making specific arguments in a debate over an exact item and have a book handy but simply don't list a page number for anyone to look at.

The other reason I'm pro page numbers is that I like seeing arguments that list them because often times I find something in the rules I didn't see before.

[Adam]

[Fortune]

Ooohhhh ... New Topic - Acronyms for Stumps to Include :D

Have to start with the ever-popular AVS, and I'm sure you'll have to throw in a mention to the various and sundry ways in which it can interact with Ally Spirits, dikoted or otherwise. ;)

Maybe you should also include a sampling of generally accepted net acronyms, such as IIRC, AFAIK, or the ubiquitous YMMV. :)

[Kremlin KOA]

hey fortune what is AVS?

[Fortune]

Ares Viper Slivergun :)

[RedmondLarry]

Suggestions for Acronyms to be published is continued in this thread.

[Cable]

Hey, if you're not willing to learn a little local lingo, get out of the country.

[Kagetenshi]

Wonderful attitude. Works so well in real life.

~J