Setting spirits free, A good or a bad thing. Options

[Edward]

Setting spirits free.

In a resent game I was playing an initiate shaman and we where beset by vans each containing 4 red samurai and a cyber zombie the rigger took out 2 vans with AV missiles but that was the end of those and we didn’t have anything else that could really hurt them. So after a more experienced player alerted me to the option I summoned an unwise spirit (force 9 city spirit to my char 6 magic 7) and instructed it “protect me, my companions my employer and his companions from those (indicate enemy forces) and you’re a free man…. Spirit” out of that I got a very frightened player (the one that told me of the option) and a level 1 contact force 9 player spirit that I am helping get into the shadow running bizz

First what is the general opinion of this strategy and its outcomes.

This did however get me thinking shamans are supposed to respect there spirit allies (not send them on suicide missions and such) so it wouldn’t be to hard to imagine a shaman that habitually frees every spirit he summons. What repercussions would there be for a character that did this.

Edward

[Herald of Verjig...]

When a spirit is freed from service, it may become a distirbingly powerful free spirit wandering earth to its own ends, or it may return home. If a mage could actively and intentionally turn conjured spirits into free spirits who may be allies, many shamen wolud (at least once a day) conjure a really big spirit, ask it if it would like to be a significant influence in this world, and free all the ones who like the idea. Such a shaman could also permenantly banish all of them who never want to see earth again.

That is entirely ignoring what a force 9 spirit with 1D3 spirit energy can do. A force 5 free spirit with only one point of spirit energy can surpass regenerating mages with an initiation behind them for many contests.

[Cynic project]

I would say that this sort of tatic would be risky at best. Not only in the fact that you would be freeing a bunch of spirits, but in the black lash it would cause. Think of how many people would do this once word sread.And think of who would want to stop this....

[The Jopp]

You should also remember that a shaman is essentially forcing the spirit to our plane of existence, completely ignoring the spirits own free will (why would he like to "help" that foolish meatbag anyway?). The spirit could very well nod in agreement and then become a reocurring nightmare to the summoner for the rest of his or her life.

[Ol' Scratch]

[Kanada Ten]

[Ol' Scratch]

An intelligent magician would just ask the spirit what it would like. You don't have to boss your spirits around; asking politely is often more than sufficient.

There's doubtlessly as many spirits who would love to become free so that they could explore everything this fascinating world has to offer as much as there's metahuman magicians who would love to explore the metaplanes. Especially those would would become anima upon their release.

Afterall, free spirits can travel to the metaplanes any time they like.

[Kremlin KOA]

reread his post, it gave the spirit an offer... the spirit took it... this time it was a player... next time maybe a shadow?

[tisoz]

Does everyone play that a summoned spirit that is told it is 'free' before all its services are used can become a free spirit?

If so, why don't we have a Free Spirit sourcebook? There must be thousands of powerful free spirits inhabiting the world. And Force 9 spirits could pretty much openly advertise for karma trades without much fear of becoming bound. For that matter, where are all these free spirits of force 3-5. I know many people that would like to have a bound free spirit, but they are never around in my games. Even the ones that were summoned by recently deceased magical types, never decide to stick around and be a free spirit.

[wargear]

As an inexperienced mage player a little while ago, I summoned a force 6 earth elemental to assist me with spell research. When it arrived looking all surly, I asked it to assist me, and offered it some coffee. Then, naievely, I gave it a name.

Our GM considered this, and decided that the coffee was a "gift comprising all four elements", and that since I had asked for assistance from the elemental, rather than demanding it, and since I had named the elemental...the thing was free from the outset.

On another occasion, we summoned a bunch of earth elementals and spirits to dig a tunnel into the lair of a powerful wendigo shaman. After the tunnel was dug, we released the spirits and elementals, even though they still had services. The spirits vanished, but the elementals just looked at us until we left. When we finally confronted the wendigo toxic shaman, both earth elementals turned up to help pound the stuffing out of it. Free? No idea.

[Kanada Ten]

[Ol' Scratch]

Right. At best you can give it its freedom. It then can choose to return home or become free, though Force 6 or greater spirits almost always choose to do so (MitS p. 113, Born Free). While the GM is assumed to determine the outcome of that situation, they do include a game mechanic for determining it; it requires a Force (6, or 4 for those long associated with man) Test. The only type of spirit that *always* becomes a Free Spirit is an Ally Spirit that a summoner loses control of (MitS p. 114).

Note that being summoned, materializing, or becoming a free spirit is not necessarily a bad thing for a spirit. As mentioned earlier, there's doubtlessly as many spirits (assuming you're of the mind that they're free willed and sentient beings to begin with; I don't) who would love to explore the Physical World as there are magicians who love to explore Astral Space and the Metaplanes.

[Conskill]

It's also possible that some (many? most?) spirits that go free experience that ultimate liberation of becoming a sentient, free-willed being, look around the physical plane in a glorious moment of self-discovery, then say "Screw this one-horse reality" and never leave the Metaplanes again.

[Edward]

I could be wrong but I had assumed that when a spirit was set free it could, at its sole discretion, return to the same place it would have if you had not set it free and never return.

Edward

[DarkShade]

wow, releasing a force 9 spirit..
canon doesnt really specify how you can voluntarily set a spirit free.. but I would be wary, the one campaign I saw that was imho ridiculously overpowered contained a munchked force 12 free spirit and it was overpowered mostly because of it. .. brr.. force 12 no drain spells...
a force 9 free spirit is definitely a force to be reckoned with, setting it free in the middle of a firefight is a risk way out there.. it may not like you, it might decide to punish you, it might decide to go back home, it would acquire its own motivation, it is no longer controlled by you.
personally I would rule it isnt that easy for a spirit to become free as otherwise there would be zillions out there and this can be *easily* abused... I can already see a toxic shaman filling a cityblock with an army in this manner.. one new force 3-4 toxic free spirit every 3 seconds... level a city in 2 days..

DS

[Kremlin KOA]

Look at the way he worded it, he offered a deal... the spirit would have to keep its side of the bargain... then would be free

[Ol' Scratch]

[Kremlin KOA]

Doc that is assuming spirits are created rather than summoned... a viewpoint which is refuted by dunkelzahn's will

[Ol' Scratch]

Only the part about "simply returning to the nothingness you created it from." Feel free to change it to "simply returning to the planes from which you conjured it from" if it makes you happy. Everything else is valid.

[Kremlin KOA]

the premise you shwed is valid, but remember a free spirit can never be resummoned that would be some advantage

[Ol' Scratch]

It can be resummoned just fine, you just have to know its True Name to do so. But if you're talking about spirits in general, who ever said you summon the same spirit each time you use conjuring in the first place? The closest you'll find is that spirits look similar when summoned in certain areas (like that one bar in Seattle where all Hearth Spirits look like mini-Godzillas).

[Edward]

In this case doing it once will not be unbalancing in the long run. He is only a level 1 contact and it is not going to be working with the party in future (unless I pay his fee of cause)

Where is the reference that sprits don’t take drain from spells.

As to the risk yes there was a risk but the way my GM was interpreting it the sprit got its powers immediately but wasn’t truly free until it completed the condition (I couldn’t order it around but it had to complete its bargen in order to remain free.

Edward

[Bigity]

That kind of depends on the game.

I personally think that after summoning for long enough, you start to get the same spirits, provided you are summoning in the proper domain. I've alwasy RPed it that way. Especially for watchers. Of course, for my shamans, spirits are more friends then slaves, and are not so much commanded as helpful.

[Kremlin KOA]

actually my logic was that a spirit may end up being summoed by different shamans over the years b eing free if it goes home it will only have to risk the small chance that someone at its freeing heard its true name

[BitBasher]

Actually, "set free" is not on the list of services a spirit is capable of performing. It certainly doesn't fall under physical service or aid spell or any of the other clearly listed valid commands.