 Basic weapons., Gang arsenals |
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 Nov 11 2004, 08:01 PM
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#1
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587  |
Basic weapons.
Gang arsenals I was thinking about gangs and violence in 2050s & 2060sand availability of money to such. And how this would impact there weapon selection. An Ares predator is good value on the street, it ill last a long time and looks good and is easy to get. Any punk can probably have one within a day. Regular ammunition is also easy to get and probably all a ganger would use. But even this is 20 nuyen for a box of 10. (Remarkably expensive compared to today’s ammunition prices is what has been said hear) at that price I would expect a ganger to consider ammunition conservation. A fire fight can easily cost more than a meal. What about grenades. They start at 30 nuyen each and are not always available buying them on the street your probably paying as much as 3-4 days eats. This got me thinking about the old mainstays of gangs that have been being used for hundreds of years. Improvised melee weapons are easy to figure but what about improvised fire bombs. What else would you see gangers using when nobody has seen fit to give them financial backing Edward |
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Nov 11 2004, 08:04 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 276 Joined: 4-September 04 Member No.: 6,628 |
Molotovs for sure, and the Terrorists Handbook.
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Nov 11 2004, 08:08 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Toss in a gang member with chemistry 4 and a copy of the neo-anarchist's cookbook. They'll have low grade napalm, thermite, unstable explosives, and other generally more hazardous variants of explosives. I, of course, mean hazardous to the users.
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Nov 11 2004, 08:11 PM
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#4
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Chains, crowbars, 2x4s, baseball bats, golf clubs, other miscellaneous poles laying about (usually in dumpsters).
Guns are usually shot at the beginning then ignored until you find somebody hiding in a corner who happens to be good at running. A sword if you can find another ganger with one and kill him/her. Basically, lots of blunt objects and very few edged weapons (outside of knives). If you feel like getting really creative... Spray paint, shoot, shrapnel + paint explosion. |
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Nov 11 2004, 08:36 PM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
For flavor, Go-gangers with spears (or combat knives on the end of poles) that can be used as lances. Blunt versions (or just the poles) could be used for initiation and/or status within the gang ... or not. ;)
All kinds of blades (short of quality swords, etc) would be available to gangs. Axes and machetes would also be common, as would long knives and even kitchen-type ginsu things. Hatchets are cheap and easy to acquire, as are hammers and picks of all sorts. Any different kind of club or sports implement that could possibly used offensively (and some defensively as armor), bricks, pipes, car aerials, fence posts, etc. But they've all got one thing in common ... they're all willing to upgrade. ;) |
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Nov 11 2004, 08:50 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Just walking into a DIY store today nets an amazing amount of offensive weaponry.
Hatchets and wood axes; various kinds of pick; knives of assorted sizes and designs; chisels to make a stabbing weapon... There's this thing, it's some kind of a tiling tool I think - a haft about a foot and a half long with a slightly backwards-pointing right angle at the end. Sharpen that up for a kind of shortened kama (Japanese sickle axe). For the somewhat bizarre, what about a petrol-powered strimmer? Take the safety guard off and you get a weird but nasty weapon to shove in someone's face. Chainsaws, of course, remain popular if not overly effective. |
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Nov 11 2004, 08:56 PM
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#7
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
For 450 nuyen (after street index), it's hard to go wrong with an UZI III, and of course there's the ever popular Street Sweeper shotgun (always fun), loaded up with whatever stray handful of pointy crap they find on the sidewalk.
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Nov 12 2004, 12:22 AM
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#8
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
[canon:off]
"Hi, my name's Killer, and I'm a drug deal. I carry a stash of beetles worth over five thousand nuyen with me, and I run a joytoy ring worth double that daily. To protect my assests, I turn to my trusty... crowbar." Gangs are the ones with AK97s loaded with CopkillersTM explosive ammo in the trunks of their 100,000Ą cars, and a Savalette Guardian stuffed in their pants. Everyone else is a wannbe. |
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Nov 12 2004, 12:26 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
If you play in my face to face game, the typical gang has enough C-12 to wipe out a Lonestar building in one crash and is not unknown for having grenade and missile launchers. Nothing like making you feel bad when they have more firepower than you do.
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Nov 12 2004, 12:33 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Considering the sometimes bizzare pricing on items (all relavent to when the prices were first thought up) I wonder how much thought was given to inflation? IIRC, inflation is something like 4% per year, so 1990 (SR1) to 2064 (SR3) would be about 74 years worth of inflation or ~300% of today's prices. Yeah there are lots of factors to consider, but triple todays costs on items would probably give a rough idea. 74 years ago (1930), you could eat all week on a dollar i'm sure, and I bet ammo was relatively expensive comparatively speaking. |
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Nov 12 2004, 01:01 AM
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#11
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
I like Stun batons for my gangers.
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Nov 12 2004, 01:08 AM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
To quote myself from an earlier thread:
Also: The unit of currency has changed, so no calculation can be done concerning inflation from the current world USD to the 2060s nuyen. Most importantly, though, only the prices of certain items have rised while others have stayed the same or fallen, without any logical reasons for why this happened, so inflation absolutely cannot be used to justify the price changed in any way whatsoever. |
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Nov 12 2004, 01:17 AM
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#13
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Other than the fact that I hate when you use absolutes, the number of legal hassels and hoops jumped through to produce a product does seem to increases without any sort of logical progression, and that adds to the final cost. I can almost here the ammo manufacturer, "The high prices of ammunition are the results of expensive research, stringent testing, and high government taxes. Never mind our profit margins are beyond the pale, it's the Canadian regulations and American appetite for new and better." :rotfl: Besides, a frelling BTL costs 250 nuyen a pop, so the price of ammo and food is marginal, IMO. |
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Nov 12 2004, 01:25 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I challenge you to find an example of a nuyen price of an SR good the price increase compared to current (or 1998) USDs can be reasonable explained by inflation.
The fact that the currency unit has changed pre-empts it pretty damn effectively. |
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Nov 12 2004, 01:31 AM
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#15
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
That was the whole point: new currency, keep the prices the same but change the value. Inflation is the reason that prices of some goods in nuyen are the same as those items in today's dollar. I just hate it when you say, "absolutely cannot in any way whatsoever." No good reason other than I'm that type of person. |
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Nov 12 2004, 01:33 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 7-November 04 Member No.: 6,811 |
Compare it to lifestyle.
Figure the average person pulls in enough for their lifestyle + change (the higher up you go, the more change) per month. I'd put gangers at Low, so having a trusty firearm they've saved up for + ammo isn't out of reach. Plus whatever freakish loot you want them to have. Not a match for a shadowrunner by any stretch of the imagination, but that's why they're gangers. If you want gangers that'll be a challange to the PCs your best options are a gang with patrons, a gang with an insanely good source of loot (who knew someone could repair that abandoned Citymaster?), or starting the PCs much weaker than average. |
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Nov 12 2004, 01:47 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Kanada Ten: So I take it you agree with the fact that inflation cannot reasonably be used to excuse the price of any item in SR, you just object to the absolutes? The first bit of your message is confusing. The 2060s nuyen prices of common goods could be numerically equal to current USD price regardless of whether there's hyperinflation, massive deflation, or just plain no change in real aggregate prices of consumer goods.
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Nov 12 2004, 01:53 AM
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#18
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Well, considering you can get the equivalent of a survival knife for less than $10 USD (450 nuyen in-game) and a good combat axe for around $150 USD (and 750 nuyen in-game), we can safely assume all the prices are fubared.
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Nov 12 2004, 01:56 AM
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#19
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Right, I agree with you. I remember a line from a much earlier book that said if the player wants something for a character that isn't in the books, just use today's price and change the units to nuyen. Why they didn't do that for ammo, I have no idea. The funny thing is how cheap airplanes and choppers are, but I blame that on falling standards for the airline industry. Damn special interests and lobbyists! |
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Nov 12 2004, 02:01 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
In the early iterations of the game, the designers thought you couldn't fire a gun and run at the same time. I think you're expecting a little much of these guys.
I mean, really— do research and find reasonably sane prices? Why, that'd just make too much sense. |
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Nov 12 2004, 02:07 AM
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#21
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Glad I never looked into SR1 much... I might've decided to kill them and save everybody the pain.
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Nov 12 2004, 03:52 AM
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#22
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
Melee weapons and light pistols. MAYBE a light smg.
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Nov 12 2004, 04:30 AM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Maybe a light SMG? I don't know if you guys have heard, but the Crips aren't exactly hurting for firepower. So long as it's cheap and available, they cab get it, and that includes heavy pistols, shotguns, and assault rifles. The skill to use them effectively, on the other hand, well, not so much.
If you hold less with the urban gang paradigm and more with the dirt poor, third world sprawl idea, watch City of God or Black Hawk Down. They can still be very heavily armed. |
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Nov 12 2004, 04:35 AM
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#24
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Easy use the Ganger creation rules in SRComp for your NPC gangers. After all, we are not discriminating against NPC gangers right?
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Nov 12 2004, 05:28 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
The modern survival knife doesn't come with a trauma patch. If you are a face or take connected: buy edged weapons and connected: sell slap patches, you can make a killing by buying survival knives, taking the patch out, and reselling it. If your GM allows this without limit, though, you should go back to your video games. Where can you buy a combat axe today? This is a 2 meter long monstrosity that they're talking about, and I've never seen anything for sale of that size that would work effectively as anything other than a conversation piece. |
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