 Astral ammo, I don't like mages :) |
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 Nov 20 2004, 12:00 AM
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#26
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775  |
I'm pretty certain it's power unmodified by automatic fire. |
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Nov 20 2004, 12:03 AM
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#27
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Rock salt could be considered an "Earth" attack attack and is in that case an elemental attack. It sounds feasible since an elemental attack is only thus IF the material is PURE. By "pure" I mean a natural non--refined material like wodden stakes/arrows, rock salt etc. The problem all this makes is what exactly constitutes as an elemental attack? For example, big D's temper shells create a fiery effect, incendiary grenades, even tracer rounds contains flammable material, not to mention shock gloves. What if you add a small piece of wood to the tip of a bullet? Would it be concidered natural? Bottom line, many good ideas but too me it feels a little like a can of worms. :talker: :talker: :talker: |
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Nov 20 2004, 01:40 AM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
And within those same use restrictions, it'd be much faster, cheaper, and easier to simply get your friendly neighborhood mage to put some wards on bullets for you. |
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Nov 20 2004, 01:46 AM
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#29
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Who said anything about Banishing? A well placed Manabolt, or even Stunbolt usually does the trick in getting rid of Spirits. For that pesky horde, there is always Spiritblast. At least two of these are staples in almost any mage or shaman's repertoire. Banishing sucks! Banishing bad! Say NO to Banishing! |
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Nov 20 2004, 05:16 AM
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#30
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Theoretically you could produce an astray active bullet.
There are 2 ways to do this. Enchant it (bad idea as it would be a material link to you) Build it out of something astraly active (or make it hollow and fill with same). I did once have a character toy with using a large calibre round with a large hollow point packed with bio fibre or FAB 2. His experiments didn’t get very far because he discovered enchanting and lost interest. Obviously the shelf life would be limited because the bio mater won’t live long packed into a bullet. I’m not certain wether such a round would bypass a spirits immunity to normal weapons. I would think it would. Can you put a ward on a bullet. I thought that would not be possible. Also it leaves his astral imprint all over your murder weapon so I wouldn’t be in a big hury to make them if I could Edward |
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Nov 20 2004, 05:20 AM
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#31
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
FAB-2 (and anything else along those lines) lives just as long in a bullet as it does in any other container. It has the same ratio of nutrients relative to the amount of bacteria whether it's a thimble or a vat.
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Nov 20 2004, 05:27 AM
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#32
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Enchanting won't work because the bullet has to be in physical contact with with a living person to be astraly active, perferably one who has bonded it.
Although, you could use monowire tether subsonic bullets to a gun and enchant the whole thing. You'd just have to re-enchant every time you reload. |
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Nov 20 2004, 11:29 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
Just have your Cleric bless your bullets.
What?...huh?...speak up...oh. Really? But I thought...no?. Well...damn. Sorry, wrong game. I was thinking of AD&D again. |
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Nov 20 2004, 01:26 PM
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#34
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Images of Underworld pop into my head for some reason... Whilst I'm not sure I personally would go down this route at this point, I can see something along these lines becoming a R&D priority as the mana levels continue to rise and the Second Scourge becomes an issue and the need for magical solutions useable by mundane agents grows. Hmm... perhaps I ought to look at this if I ever run my Second Scourge campaign again. EDIT: I just had a thought - what about the Ares Squirt II, or the Cascade Rifle? Or better yet the ELD-AR? (Corporate Security Handbook pp. 67-69) Both of these are custom-designed liquid delivery weapons, perfect for slapping something with FAB. EDIT (again): I can't believe I forgot this one - the Bacteritech FAB-NG netgun (Corporate Security Handbook p. 70). |
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Nov 20 2004, 02:08 PM
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#35
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
And I'm pretty sure that that's only what the FAQ says. The text of immunity uses the wording "power of the attack" ... which includes PN rise due to bursts or full-auto. It even includes ammospecific rises of PN, but the power alos says that all forms of armor piercing ammo are treated as being "standard" against this power. It's up to you which ammotypes you like to consider as "armor piercing", since any rise of the PN for ammotypes can be considered as "armor piercing" within the abstract nature of the damage system ... |
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Nov 20 2004, 02:51 PM
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#36
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
There are many ways to get FAB on something but it really doesn’t do you much good. If you can get the impact to occur at speed then you can damage the target rather than just slowing it down for a moment.
Edward |
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Nov 20 2004, 07:30 PM
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#37
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Hence the ELD-AR, which is basically a paintball rifle capable of full-auto fire :)
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Nov 20 2004, 08:14 PM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
When SR3 explains hardened armor, it specifically states that the power comparison is calculated before staging due to autofire or successes. Is there any precedent to think that comparing power to immunity is any different? |
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Nov 20 2004, 08:19 PM
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#39
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Immunity to Normal Weapons is never described as hardened armor. In fact, Hardened Armor is a completely differen power, and it specifically mentions "unmodified by burst fire or anything else" whereas Immunity does not.
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Nov 20 2004, 11:05 PM
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#40
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
The fact that it has a different wording? There are two types of armor that are discribed as "hardened" 1. MilSpec Armor 2. the Critter Power "Hardened Armor" (which happens to exist as a seperate entry!) Both explicitly state that the base power of the attack has to exceed the hardened armor rating in order to take effect. The immunity power however only references "power of the attack". The power of an attack however consists of base power + burst mods ... And as Doc F correctly said: The immunity power nowhere uses the term "hardened". So although this power shares one property of hardened armor (no effect if the power doesn't exceed it's rating) it's still not "hardened armor" in game terms. It's just what it's called: Immunity (normal weapons). There's yet another form of armor that exibits "hardened" traits, but still is something different: Vehicle Armor. And even that armor type explicitly states that burst modifiers do not count. So my my precedent is the fact that Immunity does not make such restrictions in its wording, the fact that "hardened armor" exists as a separate power and that another armor type that works like "hardened armor" also explicitly states that burst / full-auto modifiers don't count. |
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Nov 20 2004, 11:26 PM
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#41
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
I don't see why not. If your GM insists that the ward boundaries have to be a container of some sort (which isn't required by the rules), you can always use capsule rounds or the like.
Forensics get interesting here, because, if you're shooting at a purely astral target (if you're not, why aren't you just using regular bullets?), the body, if there's one at all, probably won't be anywhere near where your bullet ends up. The ward may provide a nice trail back to the mage that created it, but in order to pick up that trail, any investigators may have to find the link between an unmarked corpse in one location and a bullet embedded in a wall on completely the other side of town... |
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Nov 21 2004, 03:34 AM
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#42
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Unless there is something restricting a purely astral target, a warded bullet will have no effect because it will not force an intersection. Instead the astral form will be pushed aside. Only if the astral barrier encircles the astral form, or if the form is restricted in some other way, will warded bullets (should your GM allow them) harm a purely astral target. And other than the total dumbness of them, they should be mildly effective against manifested spirits and dual natured beings at a minimum cost of 100¥ each or so.
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Nov 21 2004, 08:10 AM
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#43
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Shove a dual-natured critter into a shotgun barrel. (devil rat? Some wierd hampster? Dunno.)
Hope it lives just long enough to impact the spirit. :D -karma |
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Nov 21 2004, 04:12 PM
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#44
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Well, a furious demon rat will have the option of astrally attcking any spirit near its flight path. That one actually has potential. (it'll be suicidal, but does have potential)
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Nov 22 2004, 02:33 PM
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#45
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Maybe use a modified net launcher so the bugger isn't killed by the initial launch.
Dose the rat with Hyper and you're good to go! Plus, it lets you use the enraged rat at a distance to minimise danger to yourself! Loading the gun would be a bitch, though. -karma |
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Nov 22 2004, 02:44 PM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Narco-DMSO squirtgun, mage with stunbolt, and melee competant with a stun baton. The rat shouldn't be able to take out all three before it gets netted. Once you have one (deeply drugged), you can give it a teensy bit of cyberware that makes reloading easier. Remote controlled autoinjector. Or if you have too much money for your own good, 3 remote controlled (somehow) chemical glands. |
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Nov 22 2004, 03:36 PM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Heavy duty slingshot, maybe? I love the image of some runner with an armored glove reaching into his sack of devil rats and slingshoting them at folks. Works for both mundanes and astrals, and is good clean fun for the whole family... |
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Nov 22 2004, 04:36 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,700 |
what is the speed of an astral entity in sr3? I seem to remember that it was magic rating x 1000 or something similar in sr2, way too fast to target with any bullets..
anyway, spirits are easy enough to kill, esp in sr3 where initiative has been nerfed, even the high power ones go down without posing too much trouble as long as you do your homework.. DS |
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Nov 22 2004, 05:09 PM
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#49
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Anything up to Intelligence * 1000 kph. But there is a lower threshhold on speed with detail of your surroundings.
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