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> ruthenium, what's the deal with ruthenium?
equinox
post Nov 30 2004, 06:15 PM
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i just wanted to ask what the deal is with ruthenium. i think its availability is too low for its uses and suggests that the ruthenium is common. also, when making a fullsuit with it, what problems or penalties should the player experience.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 30 2004, 06:22 PM
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Well, it's probably going to get pretty hot in there. Also difficult to actually do anything with a full covering.

~J
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ES_Riddle
post Nov 30 2004, 06:30 PM
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Our group restricts you to form-fitting body armor or the second skin line when you are wearing a sneak suit.
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Cray74
post Nov 30 2004, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (equinox @ Nov 30 2004, 06:15 PM)
i just wanted to ask what the deal is with ruthenium.  i think its availability is too low for its uses and suggests that the ruthenium is common.  also, when making a fullsuit with it, what problems or penalties should the player experience.


The stuff is made into personal computer screens. A relatively low availability is reasonable IMO.

Problems that PCs in full suits should experience:

*Pressure sensors
*Ultrasound
*Claymore tripwires (perfect for after hours use in zero-zero megacorp facilities and Stuffer Shacks in the Barrens)
*Drivers in large vehicles running over the invisible PC
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BitBasher
post Nov 30 2004, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (equinox)
i just wanted to ask what the deal is with ruthenium. i think its availability is too low for its uses and suggests that the ruthenium is common. also, when making a fullsuit with it, what problems or penalties should the player experience.

It's available, but expensive, that alone inherintly limits it.
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Backgammon
post Nov 30 2004, 07:08 PM
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Reuthenium is fairly cheap. Scanners that replicate you environement to make you invisible, are not.

Reuthenium suits are vulnerable to damage (like climbing over a fence, or getting shot) and in no way protect against Thermal or Ultrasound detection. They're only good for normal vision. You can combine and make a thermo dampener/reuthenium suit, but you're looking at major nuyen.

Also, don't forget you can't wear anything on the outside, and anything you carry is gonna give you away. That means no guns or tools in your hands, and your weapons are *under* your suit (some sort of quick access latch could be devised, but you'd still lose time).

My high-level campaing players have access to a full reuthenium/thermal dampener suit, as well as 2 reuthenium blankets. They often use them in their plans, but they are merely *part* of the plan, not *the* plan. Overall, nothing game breaking.
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Cray74
post Nov 30 2004, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (Backgammon)
My high-level campaing players have access to a full reuthenium/thermal dampener suit, as well as 2 reuthenium blankets. They often use them in their plans, but they are merely *part* of the plan, not *the* plan. Overall, nothing game breaking.


And with the proliferation of thermo/ultrasound sensors (thanks to all those runners who loooove ruthenium), my PCs find them mostly useful for sneaking into women's locker rooms. Not game breaking, just a sign of patheticness. ;)
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mfb
post Nov 30 2004, 07:11 PM
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one problem the player will experience is the fact that his weapons probably aren't coated in ruthenium.
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Seraph
post Nov 30 2004, 08:13 PM
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first off...for a sniper...rethenium is just insanely overpowering...while there have been some good points about it being easily damaged and such...and in an enclosed area it might not be that handy...but if you're in an enclosed area...there probably isnt any need for a sniper anyway...but in an outdoor area...even though you may still be able to see the weapon...the chances of seeing the weapon are much more miniscule than if the person were blatantly standing there behind it. now...mind you...a good sniper really shouldn't need rethenium...but...with it...it just makes him all the more deadlier...any ideas on how to handle a permanently invisible sniper?
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Cray74
post Nov 30 2004, 08:16 PM
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It's a problem with any distant sniper. Some guy hiding amongst rooftop air conditioning piping 500m away is not going to be very visible, with or without ruthenium.

Otherwise, see other points in this thread. Ruthenium isn't the be-all, end-all invisibility system. Ultrasound, thermographics, paint grenades, suppressive fire, or just taking cover (especially indoors/in a different room) reduce or moot the sniper's advantages.
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equinox
post Nov 30 2004, 08:24 PM
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someone remind me how suppressive fire game mechanics work again. that sounds like a plan.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Nov 30 2004, 08:29 PM
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You put a lot of bullets in a small area, everyone in that area dodges, if they do not dodge all bullets in their square meter, they resist one bullet staged up by skill with few modifiers on that staging.
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The Jopp
post Nov 30 2004, 11:28 PM
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Shadowrunner sneaks inside a building and wears a full coverage Ruthenium suit

Security guard hear a suspicious sound and out of sheer nervousness blasts off a round of buckshot down the corridor, and the runner is only five meters away

Shadowrunner manages to stage down damage, but realizes that his invisibility suit is now torn to shreds, and the nervous guard is about to fire again.
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ES_Riddle
post Nov 30 2004, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE (Seraph)
first off...for a sniper...rethenium is just insanely overpowering...while there have been some good points about it being easily damaged and such...and in an enclosed area it might not be that handy...but if you're in an enclosed area...there probably isnt any need for a sniper anyway...but in an outdoor area...even though you may still be able to see the weapon...the chances of seeing the weapon are much more miniscule than if the person were blatantly standing there behind it. now...mind you...a good sniper really shouldn't need rethenium...but...with it...it just makes him all the more deadlier...any ideas on how to handle a permanently invisible sniper?

First off, when you're talking about snipers in position, you're already talking about people who are invisible. Distance+stealth 6 (or higher)+appropriate camoflauge (legal and available for less than 1000 ), means that folk aren't going to see them unless they know where to look already. There is nothing blatant about a sniper standing behind his rifle (odds are he isn't even standing).
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Sandoval Smith
post Dec 1 2004, 04:21 AM
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Although ruthenium itself is cheap, the processors that make it work are not. That's the big balancing factor. The other is fragility. Once it starts taking damage, your stealth suit is screwed. Also, anything set up to detect the even bigger problem of invisible intruders will easily handle ruthenium.

Snipers in ruthenium shouldn't be an issue, since if they're doing their job, they should be nearly undetectable from a distance anyway.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 1 2004, 04:51 AM
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QUOTE (Sandoval Smith)
Also, anything set up to detect the even bigger problem of invisible intruders will easily handle ruthenium.

Unless it focuses on detecting the magical activity, but yeah.

~J
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Ol' Scratch
post Dec 1 2004, 04:57 AM
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The problem with ruthenium with a full suite of sensors (+12 TN modifier) is that it's superior to invisibility in many ways. Hell, it even beats total darkness (a +8 TN modifier)!

If it stopped at a TN of +8, it would just be really good camouflage. It's the fact that it can beat that by 50% that "breaks" it (nevermind the weird limitations such as you not being able to move very fast, but it being able to handle other things moving fast -- I still haven't figured that one out).
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 1 2004, 04:58 AM
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Easy. It includes a bright yellow sign saying "NOTHING TO SEE HERE, PLEASE MOVE ALONG".

~J
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Fix-it
post Dec 1 2004, 05:22 AM
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I'd rather just have an S.E.P. field generator.
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Stumps
post Dec 1 2004, 07:18 AM
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Doc:
Just trying to help make sense of some of it here...
If you take a 8mm video camera and run with it on a glide track it will skip some frames of capture because of the digitizing, but if a car passes at 60mph it can capture it just fine.

It's an inherent problem with digital video relay.
If you move it, it smears. If something moves in front of it, it's fine.
It seems dumb, but 6 years of multimedia and you really see the reason to have a high price camera.

The +12 is incredibly dumb though.
It should be +6 (or for good fun, +7TN :grinbig: )
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Gilthanis
post Dec 1 2004, 07:49 AM
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Logically the stuff only makes what is covered with it "invisible", but since it gets really lame having characters with dermal sheathing and rheuthenium running arround naked. Yeah that is the trade off for getting it, but we just house rule it that it takes care of your clothes as well. (I know before everyone busts out the logic we just did this to keep from having a nudist team. And yes that would happen.) I agree that it is really bad ass, but so is improved invisibility with oh say the easy to get 8+ successes for any good mage. Especially at a low force. It is kinda easy to chease that (unless errata changed things arround again.) and most people with a 6 intelligence would never see unless astrally perceiving. I think this is a street sams way to bring more balance to non-magic users. After all, SR3 has pretty much completely leaned to the magic side for almost everything.
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Stumps
post Dec 1 2004, 08:18 AM
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the best ruth-suit is actually completely simple.
A pancho.
You can hide things under it and you can lay it over you while in position.

Sure, you run the risk of triping on the extra long fabric that you've taken to cover your feet, and there's always the chance that your feet may be seen and maybe a bit of your leg, but so what...you've got a REAL easy way to hide your gun without trying to get all fancy with it and it's more diverse than the normal suit.
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Blaze
post Dec 1 2004, 09:23 AM
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One of my PCs went the whole hog and coated his M22 with ruthenium, meaning the only parts of him normally visible were the scope lenses and the inside of the weapon's muzzle. There is, however, a cheap and cheerful way around the stuff- though it replicates an image around the user that renders him invisible, chances are he's still going to cast a shadow. Floodlighting facing out towards the perimeter wall and underbarrel flashlights can really hamper your wannabe ghost.

-JH.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Dec 1 2004, 09:33 AM
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Would looking via a reflective service work? Think the walkway in the last crusade, looked at from the wrong angel made it easier to spot.
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DrJest
post Dec 1 2004, 09:37 AM
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Ah, fond memories of my old Heavy Security Armour done over with ruthenium plus all the trimmings :) Damned expensive, but fun.
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