Guards, Soldiers, Übersoldats, Cyberzombies, ... Enemies in other words! Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Solidcobra]

Are there any pre-made stats for the human/ork/elf/whatever enemies?
If so: Where can i find them?
If not: Please, could you post some stat examples? (I tend to make things that's too unbalanced, either anyone could take them out or not even T-1000 could!)

So, would you (holy gods of all things SR) mind giving me some examples of foes or examples of books where they might dwell? PLEEEASE?

[sir fwank]

well you could just use the archetypes from sr3. character stats appear in almost any of the 3rd edition core books. i know matrix and sr companion have contact stats. you could pick up an adventure book or two and just use characters out of that.

however in my opinion, at least fasa's pre-mades not sure about wizkids don't have any new adventures, are a little under par for my runners.

unbalanced? what are you talking about, sr isn't unbalanced.

[Solidcobra]

my enemies are!

Enemy 1. Easy guard, gets killed in hundreds at a time like nothing
Enemy 2 (A little more karma). Easy Soldier, can do L damage at most, gets killed in hundreds like nothing.
Enemy 3. T-1000+Cyberzombiefromhell+Toxic Insect Blood magician=Enemy nr.3

(Not exactly, but i have a hard time balancing the foes! they either go "Ping" of the runners or the runners go "SPLAGHUT!" by just looking at them)

[Greyfoxx]

Hmmmm... ;) ...judging from the person who started this, I would assume this will be another 'post your munchies here' thread, like that one 'munchie weapons you can customize' thread. :D :D

No SC, not more of your request for munchies! no pleeaaassee SSTTTOOPP!!! :)

sir fwank, he wasnt referring to SR being unbalanced, its his NPC's who are.

[Greyfoxx]

At least, i see you've gotten over the bad habit of spamming with smileys. :)

[Greyfoxx]

Hey SC! i bet you there'll be someone here telling you "its not the stats that matters. Its all about tactics, dude, tactics.". :D

[Solidcobra]

I hereby promise, on my big stack of SR and D&D books, that i shall never ask for munchkins again, nor shall i ever spam with smileys!

Honestly.... i just want some small help, pointers, stats, tactics, WHAT... EVER.... to make a foe a balanced threat, not a "1 shot" foe and not a "Instant Death" enemy, just something that can give them a few M's and S AFTER the lowering of damage (i can shoot the teams troll with a panther and he'll get away with L or nothing..... while the mage can't take a hold-out in the leg, so i'm having a problem to say the least)

[ThatSzechuan]

Well, even one-shot-kill guards can cause some serious damage to runners if you play them intelligently.
The guards know the facility far better than the runners will; have them duck for cover, fall back to prepare ambushes, flank them through other hallways, lead them in front of gun turrets, etc..
Nobody's just going to stand there and plink away until they're gunned down.

[Greyfoxx]

Mage with all sorts of indirect spells, illusions, control manipulation...

... rethinking your tactics with the 'easy' guards. Why do they get killed easily? what did they do wrong? Rethink tactics. Containment over outright assaulting until heavy artillery arrives, meanwhile, PCs are on their toes thinking of how to get out.

[sir fwank]

ok. heres my standard sr rules for security/bodyguards/bad guys in general.

1. i'm a security guard i'm allowed to have this SMG. uzi 3 costs 600 or sandler tmp costs 500, which is a little more than predator.
2. no one actually fires a smg on SA, thats what pistols are for.
3. my company issued me this nice armor jacket (5/3)
4. i love my wife/girlfriend/etc. i'm going to get behind whatever i can to keep my head down.
5. i'll just call for backup.

-----advanced stuff (aka how to own runners)
6. gernades, always remember gernades only do S damage meaning they can't actually kill anything out right. (unless you are using Anti-Personnell, but everyone wears armor)
7. my company issued me these non-standard rounds (apds, ex explosive, etc)
8. i work at random corp zero location, i've got security grade armor, and cyberwizzywoo. not to mention my ak97(chrome cuz i'm cool) with apds and smartlink 2.
9. rigger security system.
10. gas delivery system.

dunno, i'm running out of good ones. seriously, sr is a very deadly system. the condition monitor is just designed that way. i know i'm the super lethal gm, because at one point dr.pain was losing a character a session (comparied to some other gms who have lost like 3 characters total). i'm a little unforgiving when people take 20+D damage, but we all like the realism of "you just took how many EX rounds?" or "52D from playing motorcycle chicken?"

best ways to even security to runners i know of is
1. numbers
2. reaction enhancers
3. armor
4. burst fire
5. spirit (confusion, engluf)
6. manaball
7. location
8. gernades (concussion, flash, smoke, etc)
9. vindicator minigun :grinbig:
10. lofwyr :evil:

[Greyfoxx]

Even the lowest grade, cheapest rent-a-cop can do wonders when coordinated properly. You might want to tell us how your players are capable of easily eliminating your sec. guards, so that we can come up with good answers.

[Solidcobra]

*Takes advice to the heart* ah! much better!

The problem my guards do is: They exist! combat goes like this:

Sammy goes first, getting 25 or something
Mage goes second, quickened imp.initiative 3 to get 22 or something
Guards go last, getting between 8 and 14 in general....

Sammy: Full auto, i attack four guards, three with 3 round bursts and the last one with the last shot! *rolls a crapload of dice*
So there, 4 guards dead, 3-6 left

Mage: Powerball! *rolls a crapload of dice*
No survivors, the guards didn't even understand what happened!

Then the alarm sounds and the MGS kinda game turns into Metal Slug.....

now, i'll have a better chance to do some damage (and to let the poor chummers survive for 6 seconds or more)! WEE! thanks! :love:

[sir fwank]

what you need is mantrap/killing jar. defensive landscaping/archetecture. or just make it so they can't take in their big gear. somehow. personally i punish the plan A run in shooting strategy. you need to answer with more force or something. or stop using guards with out reaction enhancers.

[Greyfoxx]

Now that you've enumerated the problem, its alot simpler to deal with it. Use of cover is the simplest way to deal with that kind of problem.

Tactics like "while PC's engage the group of guards on one side, another group of guards sneak from another side and take pot shots and throw grenades at the PCs. Meanwhile as the guards start to move out of the complex, the lockdown sequence is initiated to contain the intruders. At that time, the Police is alerted and is on its way". That should keep your PCs pinned down for a while. Of course, you leave your players' options open, allowing them to make either a smart choice of looking for a way out while the cops are coming, or the stupid choice of engaging the cops instead.

[Solidcobra]

ah, in other words: the first squad is toast, the others shall use tactics, right?

[Greyfoxx]

weeeell, you dont necessarily have to get the first squad 'toast'. That's what cover is for. They're just diversion for the second squad to remain unnoticed so they can deal some decent (M-S?) damage with their standard light/heavy pistols. At that point, the first squad starts pulling out, then the second squad tosses grenades, so the players will scatter and look for cover. The second squad pulls out and locks the players inside the complex as the police arrives.

[Solidcobra]

*raises hand* Uhm, sir? almighty god of SR? how large is the first group? because the Sammy can kill as many enemies as he can fire bullets, the mage can throw manabolts or powerballs (or toxic waves) and kill 4-8 persons in one shot, HOW in the name of Big D can i make the squad survive longer? Cyberzombie trolls?

[Andvare]

Remember that normal street punks like LoneStar troopers are told to geek the mage first. The mage are probably told to geek the troll first.
Those LoseStar dudes and dudettes have Jazz™ poppers. Other guards probably have other kid of speed-drugs, like kamikaze or PCP.
Also gas is a pretty cheap way of taking care of the problem, even CS gas works wonders.

[Greyfoxx]

@SolidCobra
Your Sammie can do that even with cover and other visual modifiers? Then run the hell out, cover all entrances with ALL available security, bring out the ARs and body armour, setup a barricade and wait for the cops. Since your guards are waiting to takedown anything that comes out of the facility, i'd consider it as ambush. Anyone who opens the door and tries to get out makes a surprise test against the guards with a +8 modifier. The guards, being braced and ready, only roll against the base.

As for the cops, they should be overkill against the runners. The first thing they should consider is to have an ENORMOUS advantage against the enemy, either by numbers, or by firepower, or both. No self respecting police organization would send some patrols just to get eaten alive by a bunch of runners. It should be overwhelming odds against your players. It should make your players think of other options than just engaging them. And any player stupid enough to fight them, unless very lucky, or very smart, ought to get incapacitated or die.

Now this is without the aid of a mage.

[Bölverk]

[Omer Joel]

Don't forget that your opponents don't have to be (meta)humans. Drones and spirits could banace out and add interest to the oposition. Drones are harder to hit (remember the one damage level reduction for vehicles), have hardened armor and don't care about Mana spells (though toxic wave should work against them). Spirits have immunity to Normal Weapons, among other, more interesting powers (Accident, for example, or using Concealment on a team of guards sneaking into position behind the runners).

And remember that the opposition usually has far more resources than the runners. They could call for large numbers of re-enforcements, call for armor/thunderbird/air/astral/SWAT support, and (atleast the better-trained guards) know their terrotory well, both literally and figuratively - they'll know the best places to take cover, the best ways to sneak up on the runners and so on.

[The White Dwarf]

The sam can kill as many targets as he fires bullets? You *are* reading the shooting mods table, the same one I have, with the +2 tn per target past the first listing? Even with SL-2 and no recoil his TNs for those shots would be 2, 4, 6, 8, etc... and thats at short range. Theres no way he can get enough successes to down all those guys in one go. And if the mage is using powerball, realize that it will destory the non-people stuff in its area too.

Any team constantly using fully automatic weapons fire and area effect damage spells is going to draw a lot of heat from their target, the cops, and their employer. No Johnson wants you to level a building when you extract someone, it just makes the retribution by the targeted corp more vicious. And no runners should want that kinda heat.

Just have the Johnson specify "no major damage to the target site" in the pitch, and have the guards get in some cover (which works against magic too btw). That alone should solve the problem entierly. The runners can choose to make their employer unhappy (bad for rep and life expectancy) and the guards will last a lot longer. Problem solved.

[Solidcobra]

:love: O..... M....... F...... G!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have yet to even THINK about the +2 per target mod! that will cut his overkilling down a lot! Hmm...... drones.... spirits......
ah, now that is even more good advice (and a reminder of the rule i missed).....

:love:

thanks!!!!

[Greyfoxx]

Whoa, whoa, wait a sec whitedwarf. Its their game and they wanna play it like Quake. We cant do anything if what they're after is combat. If the GM keeps on preventing them, just so 'to capture the essence of SR' then might as well run another game.

@SolidCobra
One question: Are your players having fun killing dozens of sec. guards? Is that how they want you to run the game, except your only having problems of giving them some equal challenge, so you ask for our help?

[Solidcobra]

yes, exactly!

The players love killing stuff, and i have killed their characters with some almighty cyberzombie blood mage lv.10 initiate (not exactly, but you get the point, right?) before, they didn't like it.....

i wanted some help here in making combat more...... interesting for them, now i can do that..... i'm thinking of lots of spirits with accident and a few T-800 like drones....... all going for cover when they aren't attacking...... that should give the players something to sweat for, and something to use their combat pool for as well.....