 Machine guns!, Please ignore the ads! |
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 Jan 12 2005, 08:59 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465  |
Neat website that talks about machine guns. >>> HERE <<<
Ignore the ads, that's not the intention of my link. |
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Jan 12 2005, 09:05 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
And while you're there, check out the intros for all the other weapon groupings: Handguns, SMGs, military rifles, ARs, sniper rifles and shotguns. It's a good site to quickly get specs on most of the commonly used and better known small arms in the world, and a few uncommon ones as well.
Completely useless for everyone not particularly interested in guns, of course, and such things won't add anything into your game unless the whole group is at least somewhat interested. |
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Jan 12 2005, 09:14 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
I've visited that site many, many, many times. It's a great resource if you're interested in firearms.
My GM and I went there to find out what my FN-HAR would look like in today's world. Good reference site. |
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Jan 12 2005, 09:16 PM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
check out the weapons from south africa. they're nuts. an uzi-sized full-auto 12ga shotgun? i gotta get me one of those.
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Jan 12 2005, 09:17 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 7-January 05 From: Ultra wideband Member No.: 6,944 |
Yeah, that's a great site. I've been using it for the past few months, in combination with my HEAVILY modified CC firearms creation ruleset to make new guns for my campaign.
I'm not converting every gun on the site - actually, I'm using this website and some others to translate the guns featured in the Hitman computer game series to SR3. I'm almost done with the Pistols, although I still have plenty to get to. LordHaHa |
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Jan 12 2005, 09:22 PM
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#6
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Fully auto shotgun, can you say buzzsaw.
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Jan 12 2005, 09:36 PM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Not quite... It's a pump-action shotgun chambered for a special 12G shotgun round that is much less powerful than even 2-3/4" 12G. It is about UZI-sized, that much is true. [Edit]World.Guns.Ru has been linked at least 53 times on this forum, says the Search function. Seems like an awfully small number, since it's linked in nearly every gun-related thread.[/Edit] This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 12 2005, 09:46 PM |
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Jan 12 2005, 09:39 PM
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#8
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
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Jan 13 2005, 12:37 AM
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#9
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Thought some of you might be interested in this site as well. Not really a new submachine gun, but Brügger & Thomet purchased the patent rights from Steyr for the TMP, redesigned it a little, and reintroduced it as the MP9. Then they made this very informative website to market it.
On an interesting side note: Since Heckler & Koch discontinued the MP5 in 1999, B&T apparently purchased the machinery for it and intend to continue production of all variants (A, K, SD), including some of their own refinements (as the E variant). |
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Jan 13 2005, 12:52 AM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
Here's what I envision as my in-game FN-HAR with GasVent IV, folding/collapsible stock, under-barrel bi-pod (not pictured in link), and top-mounted external smart-link (not pictured in link: CLICK HERE
I love that website! :D |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:21 AM
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#11
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Another intresting recent development: US SOCOM just picked up a variant of the FNC that won the Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) program contract. Here's an article all about it, with pictures of the new rifles. Here's another article putting the SCAR contract in a little more detail.
Personally, I think the FN-HAR would be more along the lines of the SCAR-H (Heavy) platform, with HAR ostensibly standing for Heavy Assault Rifle. |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:39 AM
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#12
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
They still make the UMP and MP7 right? and what about all the carbine versions, like the H33 and H53? |
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Jan 13 2005, 01:40 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
I can see how the FN-HAR could be considered a "heavy" assault rifle - thus the HAR in FN-HAR. The "FN" weapons I was looking at are .308cal which can equate to the in-game damage because of the caliber. In-game SMGs do less damage than the FN-HAR because they range from current 9mm to .223 calibers, equating their in-game damage code.
In the article linked above, the FN SCAR-H uses ammunition of 7.62x51mm which is basically a .308cal cartridge according to US measurements. So, yep, I agree the in-game FN-HAR would be similar to the current FN SCAR-H. For comparison, the FN SCAR-L uses a 5.56x45mm cartridge. If I remember correctly, it's the same as a .223 cal cartridge, which what an M-16 uses. Good read, nice article - thanks for linking that. |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:11 AM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Actually, I'm going to have to whip out Occam's razor here. The SR gun designers knew nothing about firearms. One late night at the FASA offices, circa 1997:
"What's a FAL?" "Fusil Automatique Legere. Light Assault Rifle." "What's the future of assault rifles?" "Just make it heavy, I guess." "FN HAR?" "Sounds good. Let's get back to drinking. I want to finish up these essence values by morning." |
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Jan 13 2005, 02:38 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
FN - Fabrique Nationale (sp?) is a well known gun manufacturer all over the world. Anyone who looked at a decent resource on firearms would run across FN. Besides, people who make RPGs don't do it on a whim knowing nothing about RPGs and the related items to be used in the game their designing.
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Jan 13 2005, 02:44 AM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Heh. I guess you're new to Shadowrun, then.
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Jan 13 2005, 03:06 AM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
I've been playing SR off and on for about 10 years now.
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Jan 13 2005, 03:26 AM
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#18
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Yes, they still make the UMP, MP7, G36, MG4, the various USP and P2000 handguns, as well as the P7. Most of the "legacy weapons" (meaning the roller-locking weapons based on the G3; HK13, HK23, HK33, HK53, MP5, etc...) have been discontinued. HK is no longer manufacturing them. I'm not sure about the HK21, PSG-1 or MSG-90 because they haven't been mentioned directly. I assume they'll keep making those as they don't yet have anything new in their lineup to occupy those markets. They've also discontinued the HK79 series grenade launchers. I'd kind of hoped that they'd move that machinery over to their new plant in Georgia and sell semi-auto versions of those rifles here in the US, but at this point it doesn't appear that they'll be doing that. I guess it's still a possiblity. So far the new plant is set to produce the XM8 and handguns for government contacts, most notably for the Homeland Security department, who awarded HK a $26.2M contract last August.
No prob.
The FN HAR is a first edition firearm. I really can't see them putting a whole lot of effort into really figuring out what something called an HAR would be in reality, besides maybe a quick look at a FAL in a book and going, "let's do that one, but let's call it something different." So they whipped up something not too statistically different from another assault rifle within the system they'd created and called it the FN HAR. I doubt there was much thought beyond "let's call it a HAR" and "tack on Gas Vent 2 and a laser sight to make it different" put into it. In the SR1 book, the FN HAR uses a 20-round clip (like the FAL). It's interesting to note that this was changed to 35 rounds by SR2 (a magazine capacity that very few real assault rifles use), probably in order to bring it in line with newer assault rifles in the game. Also, the picture in the SR1 book is quite obviously a MAG-58 machine gun juiced-up to look futuristic, with a box magazine drawn in. |
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Jan 13 2005, 03:29 AM
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#19
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
The line developers were exercising their rights as LDs to shape their game world as they saw it. Sometimes they used RL examples, sometimes they spun their stuff out of whole cloth. The LDs have shown their willingness to ignore RL to make their game world fit their vision of it (not as the fans saw it). |
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Jan 13 2005, 04:48 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 11-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,961 |
Bingo. |
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Jan 13 2005, 06:15 AM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 17-July 04 Member No.: 6,492 |
I don't know if anybody has any information regarding this weapon system, but please take a look and chime in. You can find out some information >>HERE<<
Tks Xyth |
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Jan 13 2005, 07:06 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Remember to put 80% of your weight on your front foot...
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Jan 13 2005, 07:34 AM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
And in a few cases (such as the shotgun shot ammunition and choke rules), they have also shown willingness to ignore logic. I'm not quite willing to believe the designers would, in full awareness of how these things work IRL, have made some of the choices they did. I just can't bend my mind around why someone who knows how shotguns work IRL would have created the abominable canon Choke rules. It's much easier on my brain to just decide that they didn't know a whole lot about firearms and were mostly making stuff up as they went along. I'd like to point out once again that I love the basic concept of SR rules, and several of the details as well, and the world overall is great, so I can't bring myself to dislike the designers too much. But there's no point in making them out as omniscient beings either, not when there's a lot of evidence to discredit such a view. xythlord: The HIWS? I assume you watched the video on the same site? The article says it all, really: In theory, an accurate, long range, shoulder-fired grenade launcher is a great idea, but something has to be done about the recoil before it's useful in practice. For trolls, maybe -- but trolls can use even more powerful weapon systems without too much trouble. |
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Jan 13 2005, 10:43 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Add to that - concealment ratings - equipment/weapon weight - firearms construction rules - "bronze-core" anti-vehicle ammo - 3rd Ed essence loss explanation etc. |
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Jan 13 2005, 05:50 PM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 2,020 |
I think I've found every merc's favourite weapon, the Ares ALPHA :evil:!
That configuration makes a little more sense than does an underbarrel launcher, but that's just me, I suppose. Makes it easier to control, but it does say that the Grenade Launcher is supposed to be the primary use of the weapon (as air-burst HE grenades do more damage more effectively than kinetic impact), with the SMG on the bottom being close-quarters 'personal defense'. Oh, and in further exploration, here's a possible AK-97, or the Ares 'similar' weapon. Makes you think.... BaronJ |
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