 Hurting my Players |
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 Jan 15 2005, 07:22 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 12-January 05 Member No.: 6,965  |
I have a problem. My players armour rating, I think, are really high. They usually wear form-fitting armour with some sort of duster over it giving them roughly around a 7/4 armour rating. Do you guys think this is too high?
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Jan 15 2005, 07:29 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Ah, you round up the 1/2 on FFBA's impact. Not that it makes much difference. Apply similar techniques for opposition (your PCs aren't the only creatures on earth smart enough to layer armor) and it'll be fine.
Melee weapons, burst fire, and large guns can get past that little 7:4 without much difficulty. Even an AVS wielded with mild competance and one aimed burst can hurt them with that armor. |
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Jan 15 2005, 07:29 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 12-January 05 From: New Hampshire Member No.: 6,969 |
Are you remembering to apply the quickness penalties for layering armor? Because that'd be an insanely high QCK for them to have.
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Jan 15 2005, 07:52 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
FFBA doesn't have any adverse effects when layering anymore, as per the errata/faq/wherever they mentioned it. Basically it doesn't count when determining quickness-related penalties etc.
Anyway, 7/4 really isn't that much at all. The players are just trying to protect themselves, and quite rightly too - there are LOADS of things that can hurt them. Burst fire/full auto, grenades, melee weapons, APDS or EX explosive ammo, etc etc etc. It's really no problem to hurt them if you want to. Even an unaugmented but strong (str 5) individual wielding a katana in two hands does 9M base, against the imact armour of 4 that's not too much fun, assuming a body that's not well into the double figures. Likewise any kind of blast in a confined space will ruin them, as will a whole host of firearms. So many options! |
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Jan 15 2005, 07:55 PM
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#5
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
APDS the only problem with it is that they could pick some up off of their enemies' corpses.
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Jan 15 2005, 08:00 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
Very true. You could use small amounts, or make sure the opponents are using weapons that the PCs generally don't. Or just use regular ammo, but more of it at once!
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Jan 15 2005, 08:40 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
Or you could abandon the layering rules, like I have in my campaign. People walk around in 5/3 armour, with implant additions, and tend to survive.
Course, I don't make nearly as much use of General Armour Piercing or APDS ammo as I should :o) |
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Jan 15 2005, 08:52 PM
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#8
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
An Armor Jacket and FFBA are 7/3 (round second layer down), which is pretty standard for most players I've seen. One could even say i's on the low side when you factor in stuff like magic. I don't really see the problem.
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Jan 15 2005, 08:54 PM
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#9
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Keep in mind that he said duster, so he probably means long coat, so that'd be 6/2 as well.
~J |
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Jan 15 2005, 09:01 PM
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#10
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yeah I know, but I was just trying to give an example of a commonly-used combination that nearly matched his figures. :)
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Jan 15 2005, 09:19 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
Nah, not really. Since FFBA doesn't count, it'd only be a quickness of 5. Some players could step outside with an armor of 12 and not be adversely affected. (Qickness: 10, plus FFBA) |
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Jan 15 2005, 09:24 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
I know I going to regret this, but how could a player come up 12 w/o mil or sec armor?
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Jan 15 2005, 09:33 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Quickness of 4 actually, as penalties do not start until the armor rating exceeds quickness by 2 (FFBA excepted). |
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Jan 15 2005, 09:40 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
Presumably people in that case are allowing more than two pieces of armour to layer at once. A lot of people only allow two, some allow any number. Either that or a whole hell of a lot of cyberlimb armour, in addition to worn armour, since it counts for the penalties as well. |
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Jan 15 2005, 09:46 PM
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#15
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
In regards to PC's wearing high levels of amrour, do you have your NPC's used called shots or something similar? If the opposition sees that they're soaking up the hits without much bother, why not try shooting for the unarmoured parts- although this only really counts if you use the errata called shots can bypass armour rules.
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Jan 15 2005, 10:08 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 18-April 02 Member No.: 2,614 |
Some countermeasures:
-Impact damage. Grenades work nicely, as do melee attacks. -Magic. 'Nuff said. -APDS. It can really ruin any PC's day. -Water. Watch them try to swim in all that armor... And here's a houserule I use that helps a lot with armor: -A called shot (+4 TN penalty) can be used to, instead of staging damage up one level, hit a part of the target that has weaker or no armor. The faceplate of a helmet is a good candidate for that. |
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Jan 15 2005, 10:14 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 12-January 05 From: New Hampshire Member No.: 6,969 |
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY... In that case, I have a bone to pick with my GM. |
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Jan 15 2005, 10:23 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Well, with low impact ratings you can have them get into melee combat. You could use chemical weapons, even 'tame' stuff like neurostun. Electric based stun weapons.
As mentioned the chunky salsa effect of a regular physical-dmg type grenade in an enclosed space, such as a hallway in a building, can be very dangerous. Course, that tends to be a bit of overkill :P |
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Jan 16 2005, 12:05 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: 27-January 04 Member No.: 6,025 |
I've run into a similar problem when dealing with a party all to willing to shoot their way to the street corner for a samich.
Thus I decided that any facility that has the cash to hire/train/equip their own security forces, also has the cash to put one Ares Alpha loaded with APDS in a lock-box in the security office. Sure if the players fight smart then they stand a chance of looting a few rounds of premium ammo, but with any luck they'll be to paranoid about whom to use it on they won't use any. |
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Jan 16 2005, 12:12 AM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Ingram Smartgun firing EX-Ex in 3-round bursts: 12S at zero recoil, quite affordable for anyone serious about their security.
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Jan 16 2005, 02:10 AM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
Light security armor at 6/4 plus FFBA at 2/1 (halved) with a lined coat (4/2) thrown over it. If you ask me (and the guys I run with), security armor shouldn't be any less secure just because you decide to wear a duster with it. But then again, we picture is as semirigid interconnected plates, like the stuff Konoko is wearing on the Oni video game cover. (Hell, I even forgot about the helmet and forearm guards, but that would be twinktacular.) EDIT: Oops. I just saw that thing about w/o mil OR SEC ARMOR. That'll teach me to post and look at porn at the same time. Too much distraction. |
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Jan 16 2005, 02:24 AM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's still only 10/5. Once again, subsequent layers are rounded down. Full body FFBA layers as 2/0, and the lined coat is 2/1. The character would also need a Quickness of at least 9 not to take any penalties. |
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Jan 16 2005, 02:27 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,102 Joined: 23-March 04 From: The Grizzly Grunion, in a VIP room. Member No.: 6,191 |
As I said: "If you ask me (and the guys I run with), security armor shouldn't be any less secure just because you decide to wear a duster with it." We don't half the sec armor or the coat. 2(FFBA)+6(Sec)+4(Coat)= 12.
Realistically, neither the coat nor the sec armor is going to be weaker just because you're wearing them togther. |
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Jan 16 2005, 02:41 AM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's fine, and relatively reasonable, but it is a house rule.
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Jan 16 2005, 03:23 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Though another way to think of it is: if the bullet can pierce the security armour, that cute jacket you've got over it isn't going to help much either!
JaronK |
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