Rigging a bike?, Whats your take on it? Options

[Jrayjoker]

But that is exactly opposite what the books say can happen, unless you want to go with the +8 to TN modifier for acting outside of the virtual system.

[Tarantula]

Jray. There is no check to stay on a bike. Just like there is no check to walk down the sidewalk. A rigger jacked into a drone can overide the RAS and accomplish these things, without a check. Yes, it will take a great deal of concentration, but, you don't need to roll for them, they're automatic.

Jray, the +8 modifier is to the action taken with your physical body. The action being taken here is keeping it in a semi-normal riding position on the bike. Which doesn't require a check. Thus, theres no check even if you're overrideing the RAS.

[Jrayjoker]

T,

There is no check when performing a normal, day-to-day activity, like riding up to a stop sign and stopping. The check would need to be performed in a more then day-to-day operation like evasive manoeuvering, etc.

[mfb]

the rigger becomes the bike, right? well, part of riding a bike is moving with the bike; the body is, for all intents and purposes, a part of the bike. the VCR feeds commands into the rigger's muscules the same way it feeds commands into the engine.

[Jrayjoker]

So what mods to the VCR have to be made so that it is bike ready? The fact is, except for shutting you down VCRs aren't built to control you. What if I take over your signal, can I make you dance a jig? What if, while I am repairing/installing your VCR I put in a little program so that if you ever rat me out your next act is to blow your own brains out via VCR?

[mfb]

there's no game rules for stuff like that, just like there's no game rules for a lot of stuff that SR tech should logically allow for. i'm creating an explanation that fits the existing rules; there's no rules for falling off your bike when you rig it, so the explanation for rigging a bike should be geared towards the same.

[Tarantula]

Yeah, and the check when performing evasive maneuvering is if you can make the bike move where you're wanting it to. The only time passengers can EVER fall off a vehicle involuntarily is if they are knockedback off it, theres a crash, or they nolonger control the vehicle when controlling it is what keeps you on (i.e. someone passing out while driving a bike).

With a rigger ON a bike, he easily makes the bike move where he needs to, since the bike isn't dumping his meat body off, it stays on. The check to avoid dumping the body off is part of the drive check that is made. Success = you do what you wanted. Failure = you don't get there. Rule of 1 = you dump the bike over.

A day-to-day activity is staying on your bike while controlling it. There is never a check for it. Theres also no check for the rigger to stay in his seat in the riggermobile when he makes a hard turn, and I don't see you breaking your brain over that.

[Jrayjoker]

Well, since you asked. If it is a 4 wheeler my riggers get a 5 point harness, otherwise they can get thrown.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Jrayjoker]

So there is canon to support rigged biking. I thought I remembered it from SR1 days, but couldn't make the connection.

I still think there is a need for the gyros while biking rigged.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Perhaps, but there's no canon requirement for them.

Frankly, nothing about rigging bikes makes sense. For example, combat bike involves teams with a large number of riggers. However, they are also supposed to fight with melee or stun weapons, and/or play with a ball and try to score. All this is supposed to be done while accruing a +8 TN for every test they make while playing--something which strikes me a bit incredulously simply because at +8 to every test, the fights and scoring would suck because no one would be able to take a decent shot, swing a polearm, or fire a concussion grenade with any appreciable success. Explosions are cool, but explosions which don't miss your target by half a football filed length are really cool.

What would make sense is if the rules allowed partial DNI and full DNI such as with decking. They can switch between full-on rigging and Virtual Dashboard mode for various things, like killing each other. As far as bike riggers would be concerned, it would allow them the ability to do things like wield weapons, or just rig without falling off or needing a stabilizer unit which, BTW, seems counterintuitive to riggers who are supposed to do things that a gyro stabilizer would actively fight against.

This post has been edited by Crimsondude 2.0: Jan 21 2005, 07:54 PM

[Jrayjoker]

Is it possible that the intent of "rigged" combat bikers was really people driving through use of a datajack to get the headsup display?

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Nope. They have VCRs and the bikes are adapted for rigging.

[Jrayjoker]

Well, there it is then.

[CanvasBack]

This (combat bikers with VCRs) is just another example of different authors having different takes on what being a rigger means and entails. Using SR1 adventure material and proclaiming it canon for SR3 doesn't make much sense to me in the sense that the rule mechanics have changed quite a bit and Rigger 3 Revised makes is pretty clear what is allowed in the game now. Rigging a bike should probably mean either doing so remotely, doing so while securely harnessed in some manner, and either should probably include the gyroscope. I would suggest to anyone trying to adapt Shadowbeat to SR3 go with the interpretation that the bikers are using the headsup display while they're flailing away at each other and switching to Rigging when they to pursue/evade an opponent and that the participants switch between such states with some frequency. Some sort of quick-release, quick-engage harness system would need to be employed to facilitate this and given 2050/60 levels of technology, shouldn't be a problem to come up with.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Stare decisis. It stands until it's been contradicted. At least, it does in my little SR universe. Even if it's been 12-13 years, the 2.5 susbsequent versions of rigger had ample time and opportunity to contradict it, change it, or eliminate it. That they didn't, to me, reinforces the old rule.

Moreover, Paul Hume's word means a Hell of a lot more to me about playing SR than Szeto's ever will.

But let them switch between full-on Rigger and Virtual Dashboard, and the penalty drops to +1. Pros can handle +1, and it's as close as the rigger rules allow to sanity. Even though the Reaction bonus drops, they can still use Control Pool, AFAIK.

[Kanada Ten]

One could switch between Captain's Chair and Rigging with the intent of using melee weapons and such.

[Jrayjoker]

If you are plugged in anyway it is a simple action to release something like that anyway.

[mfb]

canvasback, that's only a viable argument if the material's changed from SR1 to SR3. as far as i know, VCRs haven't changed.

[CanvasBack]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Nikoli]

IIRC, the VCR replaces part of or interfaces heavily with the Medulla Oblongatta. Balance and involuntary muscle control is linked there.

It's not inconceivable that the VCR uses reflexive muscle control to adjust the body according to the g-forces being applied.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

That works, too.

[hobgoblin]

we must recall that the vcr is more then just a datajack, its a whole set of wireing and other stuff inside the body. this could explain that while a decker normaly goes limb while decking (RAS override effect) the VCR takes over in the case of a rigger. first and formost to make sure he does not flail around inside a vehicle when doing sharp turns and so on, but allso to maybe asist pilots in avoiding blackouts in high-g scenarios and bikers to stay on the bike. if not then all one would need would be a rigger enabled vehicle (the black box) and a datajack.

[Snow_Fox]

bikes can be rigged, but why would you want to? The fun of the bick is shifting the balance and feel of the wind, I speak from RL here.