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> A wee bit of House Ruling, How do other people handle these?
Brazila
post Jan 24 2005, 06:11 PM
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I just wondered how other people handle some of the things we have house ruled on? Here are some things we have done.

Stun weapons/ The stun effect will only give +1TN penalty instead of +2.

Perm. Karma pool Burn/ Buying successes costs 1pt/success no matter how many are bought, and TN are lowered by -2/point still max of 8

Intiation/You have to wait Initiation grade*2 in weeks before you can initiate again.

The test made to get gear is made with the contacts appropriate skill (plus dice if it is higher lvl contact), the player's ettq skill can be used as complementary.


Karma spending/Anything that would normally cost karma(skills, attributes, spells etc.)that has a reduction to the cost always has a minimum cost of 1pt.

Foci Availability/The force rating will be added into all foci availability ratings.

Astral Quests/The number of astral quests that you can perform per month is equal to your intiation grade.

A few others that came up last night are the insane pimpedness of a shotgun and how impossible it is to do anything against a Doberman drone(no one on are team can even hurt one.)

And another big one we do is that karma pool come back after the run not scene. This helped keep PCs from getting insane too quickly and it also helped close the gap between more and less experienced runners.
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Crimson Jack
post Jan 24 2005, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE
Stun weapons/ The stun effect will only give +1TN penalty instead of +2.


That seems unduely gimpy, considering the whole point of why one would use a stun weapon to begin with.

QUOTE
Intiation/You have to wait Initiation grade*2 in weeks before you can initiate again.


Well, it takes a while to generate enough karma to bump one's initiate grade twice or more at higher levels, so I'd say this one pretty much only affects the low-end initiate. I don't see any harm with it, however I wonder why this is a house rule?

QUOTE
The test made to get gear is made with the contacts appropriate skill (plus dice if it is higher lvl contact), the player's ettq skill can be used as complementary.


I do things exactly the same way. I've read the reasoning on why the Etiquette skill is used, I just don't think it makes as much sense as this house rule.
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Brazila
post Jan 24 2005, 06:29 PM
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We tweeked stun weapons because they already do crazy dmg considering you only get half impact against them. We just found that they seemed really unbalanced.
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Shaudes29
post Jan 24 2005, 06:39 PM
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all you need is AV rounds and you can take out a doverman drone, the body on them is not much, punch threw the armor and thay are toste. Ever Hit a doverman dron with a lightning bold? Thay dont react well to then, not to mention the ammo cooking off.

---------------------------------------------

My house rule about atributes
time: New atribute rating cost in weeks
any number of atributes can be improved at once.
Needs to be role played out.

examples:

Taking etiqet and elucuqtion lessons (not the skill), getgin new wardrobes, make over for charisma
Weight lifting for strength
runing for body
martial arts for quikness
studding and logic puzzels for intelegenc
Phylosaphy and day to day problem solvign for wisdom

keeps players from advancing atributes to fast, to often
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BitBasher
post Jan 24 2005, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE
all you need is AV rounds and you can take out a doverman drone, the body on them is not much, punch threw the armor and thay are toste. Ever Hit a doverman dron with a lightning bold? Thay dont react well to then, not to mention the ammo cooking off.
Actually if memory serves a doberman is totally immune to a lightning bolt, or any other elemental manupiulation unless the force of the spell is more that twice it's armor rating. Elemental manipulations are not antivehicular nor armor piercing.
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Crimson Jack
post Jan 24 2005, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE
Taking etiqet and elucuqtion lessons (not the skill), getgin new wardrobes, make over for charisma
Weight lifting for strength
runing for body
martial arts for quikness
studding and logic puzzels for intelegenc
Phylosaphy and day to day problem solvign for wisdom


Taking etiquette and education lessons (not the skill), getting new wardrobes, make over for charisma
Weight lifting for strength
running for body
martial arts for quickness
studding and logic puzzles for intelligence
philosophy and day to day problem solving for wisdom

;)

Yay for spell check!
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 24 2005, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE
Astral Quests/The number of astral quests that you can perform per month is equal to your intiation grade.

I used to get hung-up on this when I first played SR, but Astral Questing for new spells isn't the end-all-be-all of "free spells". Then I realized that you can have an infinite arsenal of spells but if you haven't improved the ability to take drain you've done little more than just add a tool to your utility belt, not to mention, you'd still need to pay for a spell to begin with since the AQ only reduces the amount of Karma you need to spend for it.

Factor in any wounds suffered by the AQ and IMO, it's no different than a runner spending a few days (or weeks) time tracking down that drek-hot sniper rifle, assault rifle or drone.

QUOTE
And another big one we do is that karma pool come back after the run not scene.  This helped keep PCs from getting insane too quickly and it also helped close the gap between more and less experienced runners.

So you are undoing what Karma Pool represents, "the gap between experience". It still takes ALOT of pool to make 6 re-rolls (21-dice), so even at 100-Karma, you pool isn't a breaker IMO. Your restriction is a bit steep for my tastes.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Jan 24 2005, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
studding and logic puzzles for intelligence

(Emphasis mine.) Spell check seems to have failed you.
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lorthazar
post Jan 24 2005, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
studding and logic puzzles for intelligence

(Emphasis mine.) Spell check seems to have failed you.

I don't know, if a player could convince me there was a feasible way that studding would increase intelligence I would halve the karma cost.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 24 2005, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE
Yay for spell check!

I don't normally bash folks in open-forums, but you've hit on why I refuse to reply to anything posted with such horrible spelling and grammer. If you can't take the time to atleast attempt to spellcheck it or proofread it then I won't waste my time in trying to decypher it.
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Crimson Jack
post Jan 24 2005, 07:18 PM
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I didn't mean to sound harsh on the guy. That's why I gave him the wink. ;)

Actually, I found the "studding" slip a bit funny myself. :D
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 24 2005, 07:38 PM
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Oh I'm not snubbing him for a simple typo...

*waves hand like some Jedi*

"...this is not type example you are looking for..."
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Aku
post Jan 24 2005, 07:43 PM
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especially since studding is, in fact a word, and wouldn't have been caught by the spell checker.

and infact int he making of this post i checked, and it wasn't, the only things it brought up was my lack of ability to put " ' " in my contractions. oh well, it's the internet.
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Jrayjoker
post Jan 24 2005, 07:52 PM
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Boy, the spellchecker missed that one too! ;)
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Shaudes29
post Jan 24 2005, 08:57 PM
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sorry been having problems using the forums spell checker. It just comes up a black screen. So any way this should be a better post. I am one of the worlds worse spellers at any rate. :vegm:
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ES_Riddle
post Jan 24 2005, 10:06 PM
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QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll @ Jan 24 2005, 02:01 PM)
So you are undoing what Karma Pool represents, "the gap between experience".  It still takes ALOT of pool to make 6 re-rolls (21-dice), so even at 100-Karma, you pool isn't a breaker IMO.  Your restriction is a bit steep for my tastes.

3 karma pool is enough for a way of the gun adept to waste just about anyone. Reroll the surprise test once, reroll your first shot once, reroll your second shot once. Since your opponent(s) should be combat pool-less against your attack, this even has a decent chance of wasting two opponents.

Unless the GM is throwing large groups of foes at a moderately experienced team of runners (30-50 karma) not having the thought of "I may need this later and later may be too soon" makes karma use a very easy decision since they are better off neutralizing this particular challenge quickly and possibly lying low for a short time until their pool refreshes. At higher karma levels, fast refresh periods mean that the only foes that are really threatening are the ones that are out-and-out overpowered.

Basically, I think it is nice if challenges during legwork actually have an impact on the performance of the team when they're running.
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Cynic project
post Jan 24 2005, 10:13 PM
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And you know sometimes you just don't need to reroll. Sometimes wasting all your karma on the first people you see, will lead you to an early grave.After all you don't always see the best gaurds at the "front gate".
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Cynic project
post Jan 24 2005, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (Brazila)
Intiation/You have to wait Initiation grade*2 in weeks before you can initiate again.

And another big one we do is that karma pool come back after the run not scene. This helped keep PCs from getting insane too quickly and it also helped close the gap between more and less experienced runners.

Well, how much karma do give your players? I mean I have seen a lot karma given out in game, but they tend to be on the scale of at most 20-30 karma a month. Those were insane times and the team was tight.

Okay, So you don't like the players having a lot of Karma.That's cool. But the idea that you should some how use the idea that a run is some how a time frame is a bit silly. I have seen runs that lasted an half hour,I have seen others that lasted months. You could do something along the lines of a day,or some how based on getting a good night's sleep or getting into the zone again. But the run being a set time frame is a bit odd.
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iPad
post Jan 24 2005, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE
The test made to get gear is made with the contacts appropriate skill (plus dice if it is higher lvl contact), the player's ettq skill can be used as complementary.


Nah, I see most contacts as people you simply know. If the contact is appropiate for the gear your ettiquette test is a sign of how well you persuade him to call in favours, hassle their contacts or heaven forbid break the law or possibly get fired from their jobs. The rules work man.

http://212.67.202.74/~madg/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152

This is our groups house rules.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 24 2005, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (ES_Riddle)
QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll @ Jan 24 2005, 02:01 PM)
So you are undoing what Karma Pool represents, "the gap between experience".  It still takes ALOT of pool to make 6 re-rolls (21-dice), so even at 100-Karma, you pool isn't a breaker IMO.  Your restriction is a bit steep for my tastes.

3 karma pool is enough for a way of the gun adept to waste just about anyone. Reroll the surprise test once, reroll your first shot once, reroll your second shot once. Since your opponent(s) should be combat pool-less against your attack, this even has a decent chance of wasting two opponents.

Unless the GM is throwing large groups of foes at a moderately experienced team of runners (30-50 karma) not having the thought of "I may need this later and later may be too soon" makes karma use a very easy decision since they are better off neutralizing this particular challenge quickly and possibly lying low for a short time until their pool refreshes. At higher karma levels, fast refresh periods mean that the only foes that are really threatening are the ones that are out-and-out overpowered.

Basically, I think it is nice if challenges during legwork actually have an impact on the performance of the team when they're running.

I still don't see this a problem. My current group has 9 KP on average, and re-rolling only gives you a chance to do better its not guaranteed. I've seen the re-roll come out worse the 2nd time plenty of times. Even my 9KP players would only have enough KP to re-roll each of those 3-rolls you mentioned a 2nd time.

To each his own, do what works for you and your players.
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BitBasher
post Jan 24 2005, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE
...and re-rolling only gives you a chance to do better its not guaranteed. I've seen the re-roll come out worse the 2nd time plenty of times.
Ummm, how is that possible? Rerolling by the rules only rerolls the failed dice on any given test, making it really impossible to come out worse from a reroll, you can only get better, or worst case scenario stay the same since you keep all the sucesses you previously rolled.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 24 2005, 11:35 PM
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Yeah that came out wrong. I should've said that it's possible for the roll not to be any better than the initial roll.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 24 2005, 11:53 PM
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To some degree it is worse, because you're stuck at the same point but you now have one less karma pool.

~J
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Kanada Ten
post Jan 25 2005, 12:19 AM
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What happens if you rolled no successes and then re-roll all ones?
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GrinderTheTroll
post Jan 25 2005, 12:24 AM
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HAHA! Now I'd call that karma.
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