bank robbing, help Options

[waftalia]

hey everyone i would love some ideas on banks ,

i have a decker in my game that wants to make money in every capacity but actually running the shadows....he wants to rob banks for starters any advice on what a banks security is like in your games and how would one funnel the money out ect.....have any of you went up against this ?

second he wants to organleg escorts on the side ,ive had pimps catch up with him but there no match for his level of experience and he cycles through where he does it often to not hit the same streets very often? how much do you get for organ legging in your games?who buys it?and wouldnt it eventually work its way up to the local gangs ,mafia,yaks ect....who control it?

3rd he loves to steal motorcycles and then sell them to his fence,i cant imagine a bike store having enough security to stop a 7 man shadowrunning team with about 80 karma each .any suggestions ,coments?

i have hinted to him that all these extra curricular activities draw attention to him and mark him more as a wanta be then a professional ,but i really dont buy that arguement myself.but i dont want to on every downtime roleplay out all of these scenes.

[Quix]

I'm not going to be much help on the banks. I usually make them hard enough to crack that my players only tried it when they got their hands on some high roller's cred stick.

As for the organ legging, they may be SINless hookers but cops need love too. Send the Star after him. After all he is doing a wonderful job at giving away his kind of target. (Are these kind of criminals called psychopaths? I can't remember.) The Star should have enough rescources that even changing his hunting grounds everyonce in a while won't help. If he doesn't repeat an area after he's done harvesting there, then he's just eliminated an area that they have to stake out, or does he have just a couple of neighborhoods that he does his hunting in? As for the mafia, yaks, ect... who do you think controls the hookers. He's a pain in their bottom line. Never a smart place to stand IMO.

How many motorcycles are we talking about? Can he flood his fixer with bikes? Drop the bottom out of his own market? Since the fixer hasto be careful where he sells the stolen bike. How would you like to sell an angry biker his own bike that was just stolen.

Is he sloppy enought hat the Star could realize that the hooker slaughterer is also the one who they are also checking out for grand theft...cycle? This could start giving the player some heat in his life. Perhaps more then his friends want to have near them.

[Kanada Ten]

Other than telling him straight out that you don't want to play that game and so on, you have to simply fight fire with fire.

"What's that, my fence has been organlegged?"

The vehicle could be a set-up, a trap by Tamanous (the organlegger organization), and have an explosive device rigged to it (remote detonation). I'd let him survive that though, but then have to fight forty ghouls and a wendigo shaman to discover his chopped up fence in the Tamanous van.

[edit] Additionally, teams with Deckers, Mages, and Riggers should be high pay, high risk since all three can make obscene money from paydata, enchanting, and theft.

[ef31415]

Banks? What's a bank? I can't imagine a bank having much more than ATMs plus a matrix location -- with the nastiest ice billions of nuyen can buy.

For the hooker -- the pimps and other hookers are going to have a real vested interest in tracking these people down, and then sending the hardest sam team they can buy after them. Imagine what kind of bounty hookers could give and who would go after it.

And as far as stealing bikes goes -- you're kidding me, right? They are get what, 3,000Y a piece? That's a lot of bikes. For 7 runners, @5,000Y an month basic living = 35KY a month = 12 bikes a month.

That's not a bad life, actually, as long as you never plan on getting upgrades or toys. Start stealing more, and people start noticing.

You could force the shadows down their throat if you want. Say they steal the bike of a yakuza courier,.... or the bank account they drain is a mafia don, ... or the hooker is a Lone Star stakeout .... all three at once would have them pining for the shadows.

[Gyro the Greek S...]

[Nikoli]

Better yet, one of his harvests could turn out to be a LoneStar Vice cop. That'd put the fear of Dunk in him, starts haversting and a badge falls on the floor next to the body, with a little blinky light...

[waftalia]

thanks guys all good ideas ,ill plan on using all of them very very very soon.

[Sabosect]

Even better: A Lone Star cop on the payroll of the Yakuza and a spy for SK.

[BitBasher]

[Gyro the Greek S...]

[RedmondLarry]

IMO, you tell the player he is wasting YOUR time. You're there to be the GM for Shadowrun adventures, not to give him a paper-and-pencil version of Grand-Theft Auto or Grand-Theft Bank. You can tell him his character found enough ways to make money that he no longer goes on Shadowruns, and then have him make a new character to play in your Shadowruns.

Or you can tell him you've compressed all the rules for stealing a motorbike down to a single D6 roll. On a 2-6 he makes 3000 nuyen. On a 1 he dies.

Either way, make him stop wasting your time. That's not what you're there for. You do not need to spend one more minute trying to modify your game world to provide him with a challenge.

I had a player once who was bored with not being the center of attention (we were doing legwork at the time and his character had no social skills). He said he was going into a bar and was going to pick a fight. I rolled 3D6, examined them, and said "you beat up everyone you wanted to and had a great time". I did not let him grab the center of attention, and distract the whole table from the adventure, for more than 40 seconds. He knew the dice roll could have resulted in his character facing something that could kill him (that I would have played out).

[Fix-it]

Organlegging and bank robbery???

Why the hell hasn't he pissed off the Yaks or the Mafia yet??????

They basically control both markets in Seattle.

[Crusher Bob]

Here's a novel (ang much better) idea:

Make shadowruns pay more than stealing bike and organlegging prostitues.

I would assume that this character is doing these things for the money, as stealing bikes is estentially risk free (the organ legging risks can be minimized as well). When he can knock over a bike shop (at no risk) for say 8K (10 bikes sold at 4K a piece, split 5 ways), then why should he go on a much more dangerous Shadowrun for 10K? Face it, the 'default' prices for runs are... not too bright. Shadowruns are usually quite risky and involve capital crimes, stealing bike is just grand theft auto and worth something like 3-5 years.

Playing up the difficulty of non running ways of making money just feels stupid.

[Kanada Ten]

[Arethusa]

Fix-It has it right. Organlegging prostitutes is not going to just get pimps after you. When you kill a pimp, you make a lot of very powerful enemies. When you live in the shadows, you are biting the hand that feeds you. Whether you're a psychopath or a McManus brother, you can expect a war— and as it is war, it will involve far more fire and manpower than a single runner can take head on. And as your player sounds far too stupid to think his way around it, I'm sure he'll learn his lesson soon enough to roll a new character.

[BitBasher]

Hmm, I'm still gonna have to bet on the Mcmanus brothers... Those guys have to have some serious Harma Pool. :)

[FrostyNSO]

Crusher Bob has the right ticket.

I would make the quick rolls to see if he makes money that month, and then tell him that it uses up most of his time that month.

Then I'd take the rest of the team on an actual shadowrun that pays on average 15-20 grand more than he made, while he sits and plays with himself.

[Sandoval Smith]

[FrostyNSO]

or....the car doesn't screech to a stop in front of him, but rather plows straight through him. The pimp gets out, steals his wristwatch, then takes his deck to make up for his "ho losses".

[hahnsoo]

Even if it is just "SINless hookers", I'd imagine that eventually the media will start penning a story on the "Jack the Ripper copycat killer" that has been plaguing the streets, using that as ammunition to criticize (insert corp security force here), which will prompt the Star/KE/Private Sec Force to get involved. Then your character will quickly find him/herself Hung Out To Dry. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction...

[FrostyNSO]

Hung Out To Dry is the "final insult" when it comes to problem players.

Not to be confused with the "final solution", which is the speeding pink El Dorado mentioned above.

[Sandoval Smith]

[Crusher Bob]

There's a difference between playnig Shadowrun and going on runs. You can play shadowrun, and hove your characters be a bunch of ordinary joes who get together for poker every Friday, and the game is mostly about their everyday lives...

The main 'concern' should be: 'is going on actual shadowruns a sane course of action?'

As has been mentioned before, a good runner team can make a fine living from stealing cars, or whatever. So as a (erm, what's the term...) rational economic entity, why should you go on runs as compared to stealing cars? The margical risk/reward index of a run has to to higer than the risk/reward index of stealing cars, making wards, or whatever.

This means that:
1
The 'background' economics of the game and the consequences should be in line...

1.1
For someone of a runner's skill, they should be able to do 'regular' criminal activites with almost no real risk (this heavy handed, orbital cow, GM stuff is bullcrap). Throwing out the completely broken stuff like refining alchemical gold, a 'starting character' can turn at least 8K a month quite safely, doing some on the above mentioned activites. Working as a team, a group of 'runners' can easily up this amount.

1.2
Assuming the 'risk' of these activites it .9 and the reward is 8K/month this makes the margial utility of car stealing around 7,200Y a month.

1.3
Assuming the following about runs:
1 Run every Month
'risk' of .7
average pay of 15K
the marginal utility of a run is around 10.5K a month...
(the break even value of runs vs car stealing is around 10.5K per run)

1.4
Short version, offer alot more than the 'book price' per run or more, or rational runners won't even look up from their car stealing operations to meet the Johnson.

1.5
This is why every game that has a large emphasis on money should at least be given a once over by an economics major...

[algcs]

Not much of a chance robbing of well known bank in my game. Security is tight. Online security is tighter. If people don't think their money is going to be safe at a bank they won't keep it there. Unless you have someone on the inside. Then it gets a lot easier.

Organ legging: Make sure he keeps a good cooler or a porto fridge handy. And he has biotech so things don't get damaged. Sell the leftovers to the ghouls. Just don't get caught. His choice of targets isn't that great. Sure they are easy but more than likely they are going to be low quality. Have his contact call him up asking for a liver & arm of a magically active troll. The doctor needs it in 3 hours.

Bikes. Easy to steal easy to fence. Your local mob, yak, or gang only wants 15% for your safety. Every so often have the Star try to crack down on auto theifs.

[Jrayjoker]