 How to kill a doberman, drone that is |
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 Jan 25 2005, 03:18 AM
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#1
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957  |
In the core rulebook, the doberman drone is almost indestructible, because it requires a force 7 spell (target number 12) or a weapon with a power of 13 or higher.
While heavier armed and defended places may have AV weaponry available, some other places won't. What ways are there to hurt a vehicle with armor of 6 or higher using just the core rules? What ways become available when MitS, CC, and M&M become available? And as a side question: how do you determine the driving TN for driving something up stairs (such as a small wheeled drone)? |
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Jan 25 2005, 03:30 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Killing dobermans is easy. All you need is C4, a remote detonator, and a way to get it to the drone. You'd be surprised how useful spirits are for this.
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Jan 25 2005, 03:36 AM
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#3
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Also, elemental spells work just dandy as they don't contend with the tech level of the device.
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Jan 25 2005, 03:42 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Tx USA Member No.: 6,996 |
I'm gonna' attempt to clarify his question and say that I think he's aiming at weaponry that the average joe has access too... gangers and whatnot. i.e. no spells, spirits, critters, A/V missiles, plastique, or military-grade explosives. And to give you an added challenge, only use items from the mainbook. :cyber:
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Jan 25 2005, 03:48 AM
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#5
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
C4 is pretty average, but whatever.
Ram it with another vehicle or use a trap door to drop it a few meters down. Bury it under sand, concrete, or pick it up and hold it over your head. |
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Jan 25 2005, 03:48 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
I gave him a simple solution using items only from the main book. His question was how to hurt it using the main rules, and what ways become available with additional books added on.
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Jan 25 2005, 03:49 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 4-December 04 Member No.: 6,866 |
i think gangers would have acess to some pretty heavy stuff like that ecspecially the trolls that patrol i-5 and stuff as for shamans and spirits ,all good gangs have at least one shaman and if they plan on taking a doberman out i think theyll use his talents.
on another note remember this is shadowrun ...he who shoots first has already lost.try un undirect route of attack.a pit small but effective as long as ya got the time to gig..ie earth elemental.diversions,ect.... as of average joes taking out a doberman ...whats an average joe nudging his way into the work of shadowrunners thats our job. |
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Jan 25 2005, 03:55 AM
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#8
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
No, they don't. Elemental manipulations are neither AV nor armor piercing. The spell would need to be at least force 13 to get past tha armor. |
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Jan 25 2005, 03:57 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Tx USA Member No.: 6,996 |
Aye, and knowing the GM, I know it was not the sort of answer he was looking for. In our game I am the rigger and I am specifically NOT buying a Doberman because as soon as I do then everyone we encounter is going to have to have the means to defeat it... he has to. Otherwise he is giving a player (i.e. me) a limited put very powerful invulnerability on many, many runs. So, with that info on hand, maybe it'll help ya'll help him figure away around the problem. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:00 AM
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#10
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
You act like corps are not the ones making and using these things. Pretty much any corp worth hitting will have the means to stop a tracked drone (slip spray, freeze foam, blast doors, magicians, IR smoke grenades, [edit] electronic warfare).
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Jan 25 2005, 04:07 AM
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#11
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
You ever notice how easy it is to get ahold of minigrenade launchers, MAWs, and LAWs?
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Jan 25 2005, 04:07 AM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Doberman's are wheeled right? Can they traverse stairs? If not, you don't have to kill it. Just run the frag away and find the sec rigger running it. Kill him/her/it.
Alternately, get yourself a PC rigger. The Strato-9 has a MMG. That's enough, right? Sencond alternate: 1)Shot the tires. 2)Have Troll sam pound it into a fine dust. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:14 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Another option: Siphon some gasoline from a car, stick it in a metal container with a very narrow opening, stick a gasoline-soaked rag in the opening, have a spirit set your home-made bomb on the doberman, and then light it from a distance using tracer rounds.
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Jan 25 2005, 04:18 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
SBF: If your GM's going to be a prick about drones, go whole hog and take a Steel Lynx from Rigger 3. 9 armor base and you can mod it to 11 without impacting handling.
For the ultimate in low-tech solutions - Dig a hole in the ground and put some camo over it. Drone's do obey the laws of gravity. Have that hole be in front of the main entrance and back entrance to your hide out. Everyone who's anyone knows you're supposed to climb the ladder into the window, duh. The pit needs spikes or at least some broken glass. Not so much for the drone but for the other people. Ladders in general mess with ground-based drones(Like the only way into the basement where the meth lab is is down the ladder) Pits that you have to jump over("The floors old man, the troll busted through when it got drunk ages go") are ones I've seen before. Fragile floors are useful - The drone is too heavy and will just fall through the floor if it tries to go over it. Hit the drone over with your car(Armor doesn't count for crash tests). The building is a ghetto faraday cage(I've a buddy who lives in one of these - The house is insane and eats electronics for breakfast because of the totally messed-up wiring and overall design) and has lead paint, so while the drone can get in fine the rigger either has +'s to his TNs from the jamming. Shoot the tires. Overload the drone by dropping something really big and heavy on it(Like a dead troll) so it can't move. Turrets can't shoot straight up or at some angles. Have a particularily daring dude jump on top of the drone and begin ripping it apart. Maybe call for an Electronics B/R test or something to open it up and begin ripping apart the electronics, maybe a Gun B/R to break the gun, etc. If getting in close is an issue, the combo of something to jam ultrasound+thermal smoke grenades may be useful. The job requires stealth(Such as "If they suspect a rescue, they'll shoot the hostage"). Drones are not that quiet. Flip it onto its side or back. Psycho man with a sword or club. Yes, with a high enough strength you can hack through a vehicles armor. All sorts of chemicals from M&M - Slip spray, freeze foam, splat glue, and acid in particular. If you're dedicated to screwing over your players for playing optimally, you have the tools to do so. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:21 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Tx USA Member No.: 6,996 |
In SR3 stairs would be treated as rough terrain in tight quarters (offroad handling +3) so for a Doberman in combat that's TN# 8 (- Rigger's VCR rating) w/ a +2 while in combat sticking the average TN# with a VCR2 at 7 (i.e. =TN#6) which your average rigger will gain 1 success (if he has a 6 in Car) meaning it will be able to traverse the stairs or have to make a crash test with a failure causing 2L damage. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:28 AM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Tx USA Member No.: 6,996 |
Ok, let's make this a little more specific. Say you're going to take out a hive of gangers in the projects (i.e. no Knight Errant or Lonestar). Neighborhood housing, no traps, just drugs, baseball bats, and automatic weapons. Now say these gangers don't know the assault is coming and they're caught completely by surprise. What kind of off-the-cuff situations would you use to keep the rigger from being an unstopabble force in this situation without using magic or straying too far into the realm of disbelief?
P.S. Good input from Modesitt on probable believable situations that could be implemented btw. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:31 AM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
So run up the stairs and throw a bunch of grenades down behind you. At the very least the blast/fragments will trash the drone's tires. That'll slow it down--if not stop it--long enough for you to run the frag away.
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Jan 25 2005, 04:32 AM
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#18
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
A rigger should be able to kill the entire area without resistance (what a waste of a rigger), but I'd have the gangers flee into tunnels and close doors as the drone navigates the disaster area of bodies and flipped tables. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:33 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Other than whats been posted, nothing. Drones rule against those odds. Run away. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:34 AM
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#20
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
...
haha, okay, the gangers are dead. that's pretty much it. best they can hope for is running and hiding fast enough to escape the drone's sensors. situations like that are pretty much why drones were invented in the first place. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:38 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 807 Joined: 9-October 04 Member No.: 6,741 |
Unless they're racist gangers, they have trolls with immense strength. Those trolls are going to charge the drones they can get to and beat the living hell out of them.
Another option is to grab some ammo, set it up, pour some gasoline on it, and when the drone comes in light the gasoline. Ypu set up enough, that drone could be facing 200+ shots at once. Finally, the car thing. Grab a car, run over some drones, and try to locate the rigger. The moment you find him, attack and kill him. The rigger's pretty vulnerable while parked, and it's easy to take down vehicles with even just automatic weapons. To be honest, no gang worth the name would be without at least some form of magical firepower. If they are, then the rigger isn't your only problem, as the magician is going to be slaughtering the gang as well. |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:52 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
That's metagaming at best. No (meta)human is going to "charge" a full auto firing drone. None of my characters would anyways.
Or you could just set the drone on fire with the afore mentioned malotove cocktail. The ammo thing relies too much on GM fiat for my liking (they tend to ruin your "best laid plans..." and all that. :vegm:) As usual YMMV. <not-so-ninja edit> |
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Jan 25 2005, 04:54 AM
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#23
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Kevyn, you read that wrong. It goes: "If they are [without as least some form of magic], then the rigger isn't your only problem..."
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Jan 25 2005, 04:57 AM
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#24
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Stupid meat eyes...
Sorry's all around. :oops: <goes to edit> |
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Jan 25 2005, 05:11 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 18-July 03 Member No.: 4,963 |
The gangers immediately shut and lock every door they can. They barricade them with tables or things lying around. Drones have no special power for unlocking doors other than shooting them down or trying to rush through them. This gives them time. Remember The Transpoter? It's like that. One of the guys with an automatic weapon guns down the two biggest wusses(He needs a total of 103 kilos). When the drone comes in, they throw the dead bodys on top of the drone. A Doberman has a load rating of 51, it can carry up to twice that. Thus, 103 is too much and it's stopped cold. Deal with it at your leisure. Even if they can't find 103 kilos, a body on top of a turret is a definite problem for someone trying to make a drone's turret go. Or, break off a big board or a metal pole(The bar that would hold up a shower curtain would probably work) and have the guys waiting with it. When the drone comes in, they shove it under the drone from the side and use the item as a lever to flip it. If you stole the bar from a shower curtain, having another guy throw the curtain over. Or two strong guys with baseball bats wait on either sides of a door way, then when the doberman comes in they both shove their bats under the drone and flip it upward. the drone is a good idea. Remember Abu Gharib? Remember the picture of the guy standing on a box holding the electrical wires? Stand on top of furniture(tables, couches, etc). Flood the area with water, maybe from blowing a water pipe. Rip the electrical out of the wall and electrify the water, throwing some wiring around the door in particular so you can probably catch someone else coming through(Might have to do that step first). Rip a window out of its frame and shatter it on the ground where you expect them to come through in order to cover the area with shards of glass. This may cause them some surprises(This is probably the only time a GM will ever ask "What kind of footwear are you wearing?") and possibly puncture the tires of the drone(Probably really unlikely). With the exception of the water solution, your final action should be to light the building on fire and get out. Or light it on fire and get out could BE your solution. |
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