 How to kill a doberman, drone that is |
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 Jan 27 2005, 05:58 PM
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#151
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222  |
Doberman: Med. Crawler Chassis, BOD 2, Armor 6, Remote Microturret, External Fixed Firmpoint, ICE (gasoline) power plant, 25l gas tank
The armor weighs (2^2 x 5 x 6 =) 120kg, the firmpoint weighs 10kg, the remote microturret weighs another 10kg. It's roughly the size of a motorcycle or a prone human, but can still move over 120km/h, so the engine is going to weigh at least some 30-40kg, plus the electronics, the fuel and the chassis. I'd go with a total weight of 200-250kg empty. With the weapon and the ammunition it may weigh up to 300kg or even more. The minimum possible weight, according to the rules, is somewhere around 160-170kg with the weapon and the ammunition, but that'd mean the chassis, powerplant and electronics are completely weightless. Since it doesn't use any advanced design options you can't really argue about the abstract nature of the Load rating in this case, either. [Edit]If a reasonable strong character can surprise it from behind a corner indoors, I'd say flipping it over is a definite possibility. Picking it up... not so much. Maybe for a pumped up troll.[/Edit] |
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Jan 27 2005, 05:59 PM
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#152
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Folks are off a bit on the weight, especially if it's a body 2 drone. IIRC it has 6 points of armor.
The weight of armor is (IIRC) (Body^2)*5kg per point... Which means the armor alone on this drone is 120 kg (264 lbs). Now, since this is the size of a small bike, I'll add in the weight of the smallest freaking reasonable bike out there, like the 80's honda spree scooter weighs in a 70 kilos dry. Add in at least 5 kilos for the electronics and weapons, and at an absolute bare minimum this thing will weigh 195 kilos, likely more in the 220-250 range after sensors, rigging gear, remote control equipment, weapons, ammo, ect. This is a real absolute minimum weight for those of us on the Las Vegas side of the pond of a bare minimum of 429 lbs, with a more likely weight of 484-550 pounds. Much bigger than most folks think. [edit] I'm too slow, but I think it's funny that me and AE came up with some very, very similar numbers. :D |
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Jan 27 2005, 05:59 PM
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#153
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
You're right austere. I just meant, if say, you took any drone, say one with a large load rating, and piled stuff in it, you'd add any load consumed to the weight of the drone.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:01 PM
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#154
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Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 12-October 04 Member No.: 6,751 |
Your right, you won't be grabbing it and flipping it over. I was thinking more along the lines of using a crowbar or something to give you some leverage.
Its not something you could do in a wide open area, only in close quarters where the drone can't maneuver well. Running is a better choice, but sometimes you just don't have the option. |
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Jan 27 2005, 06:03 PM
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#155
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Considering it has a base handling of (4/4?) I think, it can handle pretty well most places. Take into account that a rigger modifies its handling a bit, and suddenly, it handles extremely well everywhere, especially with a rigger controlling it. Also, as I said before, any intelligent rigger will permenantly attach a shock security system.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:04 PM
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#156
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
From what I remember from watching battle bots, the doberman and the Steel Lynx are about the size of some of the super-heavy weight bots they had running. those hit 400 lbs easily. Not impossible for a human to lift in a stressful (adrenaline anyone?) situation, but a troll on the beefy side would probably flip it like a yugo.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:04 PM
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#157
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Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 12-October 04 Member No.: 6,751 |
A shck security system is a nice touch for it. It makes running even more attractive. :)
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Jan 27 2005, 06:05 PM
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#158
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Shock system plus ramming speed is a beautiful thing to behold (unless you are beholding from a receiving standpoint)
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Jan 27 2005, 06:06 PM
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#159
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
There's no good reason NOT to have a shock security system on vehicles. It has a pretty damn good cost/benefit ratio.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:06 PM
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#160
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Woah, me and BitBasher posted those messages saying pretty much the same thing within one minute of each other.
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, Tarantula, and my message wasn't really in response to you but to the discussion in general. Still, yeah, load consumed means the drone weighs more -- just like a car weighs more when there's people inside. I might be giving humans a bit too much credit on the flipping though. I'm a weakling and certainly wouldn't manage it. How difficult would it be to flip over something in the 225-300kg range, if it's around 0.75 x 0.75 x 2 meters in size and on small wheels, if you can get a solid grip on it? A sledgehammer should be right out, the damn thing is heavily enough armored to withstand sustained HMG fire (equivalent to around 1" of armor steel), but in the wacky world of SR it just might work. |
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Jan 27 2005, 06:07 PM
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#161
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Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 12-October 04 Member No.: 6,751 |
Ouch!
The weight brings about problems for the Rigger too though. My Rigger's gonna have to get a ramp so that he can drive the thing in and out of his Van. He isn't going to want to pick the thing up himself! |
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Jan 27 2005, 06:07 PM
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#162
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
dissregard, must have missed about a page of posts :(
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Jan 27 2005, 06:22 PM
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#163
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Yeah, my current rigger has ramps that are put in place by his walker drone so the crawlers can get out (well, they can be deployed without the ramp if the situation warrants it, but it's a pain getting them in without it.)
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Jan 27 2005, 06:23 PM
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#164
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
As an addendum, if we take the weight of one of the lightest actual motorcycles, liek the honda shadow 125 CC which I feel is far more realistic as a minimum weight instead of a scooter, given the speed this drone is capable of. The Honda Shadow 125 weighs in at 145 kilos dry. This would put the weight in at around 270 kilos, or 290 including the weapon mount and weapon and armor.
That's 638 lbs. [edit] to back this up, if we even look at something smallish like a utility quad, middle of the road model like the Yamahe Kodiak with a 421 CC engine It's 591 lbs dry or just a hair over 268 kilos not counting the 20 kilos of weaon and mount nor the 120 kilos or armor. I still think we're on the light side of estimations. |
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Jan 27 2005, 06:29 PM
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#165
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Referencing the sledgehammer, I didn't mean to hurt it, I meant for the big nasty troll to use to bean it in the upper area (to more offbalance it) and tip it over through transfer of force rather than sheer strength. You can smash better the longer the lever arm of the thing smashing is. It'd basically be the same idea as using a wrecking ball, big thing hit it, tip it over. How difficult would it be to flip something that heavy? I know I can pick up close to 350 pounds with a deadlift (I think thats what the lift is called), so, with a running start... off a 5 story building, onto a ramp thats under it... maybe? It'd be extremely hard to do. |
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Jan 27 2005, 06:32 PM
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#166
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I'm gonna have to assume this thing has a pretty low center of gravity... with a 10hg sledgehammer that troll would have to swing it at an... impressive speed to transfer enough kinetic energy to knock over something this heavy, in fact I think he'd have enough force to damage the unit way before it tipped over in the case of a sledgehammer.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:41 PM
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#167
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 693 Joined: 26-March 03 Member No.: 4,335 |
Wow, look at all the responses. BOD 2 eh?
The Doberman is bigger than I thought. As big as a Steel Lynx, just not as heavily armored. |
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Jan 27 2005, 06:41 PM
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#168
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Are we talking regular sledge or a troll sized sledge? What if its a 50-100lb sledge? Or bigger if the troll is big enough.
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Jan 27 2005, 06:45 PM
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#169
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
I'm thinking the sledge from Alita Battle angel, start to swing and the jet assist kicks in...
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Jan 27 2005, 07:02 PM
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#170
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I'm pretty damn sure that'll knock over a whole heck of a lot of things! :grinbig: Again though, you're getting to a situation where it's a WHOLE lot of kinetic energy in a relatively small and solid area (surface of a sledgehammer, normal or troll sized) I just think that the amount of energy that would be delivered to knock it over that way would likely be a high enough power to damage the thing anyway. |
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Jan 27 2005, 07:13 PM
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#171
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
Okay here's an idea from the cinematic point of view - I'd like to know what kind of TNs you guys would assign to do it:
Put a cork/obstruction in the gun barrel of the doberman. I would assume the person trying this has snuck up on the doberman from behind, and it would take some kind of athletics test just to get in and out of the sight of the doberman quickly. Any ideas what kind of TN needed to pull it off - and what would make good obstructions? |
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Jan 27 2005, 08:13 PM
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#172
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
What kind of obstruction were you thinking about, exactly? Unless there's a shotgun mounted on the turret a cork isn't going to fit into the muzzle, and most slight obstructions aren't going to cause the weapon to malfunction. Unless you can think of some common household item that would do the trick and fit snugly into a 5-8mm diameter pipe with possibly complicated muzzle structure (flash suppressor, muzzle brake, that sort of thing) and will provide enough resistance to the bullet to cause the weapon to malfunction/the barrel/block to blow out instead of just the obstruction being blown out of the way... I don't think this is going to work. You might be able to stuff a cork into the muzzle of shotgun though, those are on the order of 16-19mm in diameter. The TN would depend on how you manage to maneuver next to the drone, whether it's moving at the time and whether the weapon itself is moving. Assuming everything is moving and pretty fast too, I'd make it a QUI test against something like 10 or more (plus situational modifiers). Then the ordinary Dodge tests and everything to get out of sight of the drone again -- I say Dodge because the I would imagine the cork isn't going to stop the shotgun from firing... This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 27 2005, 08:15 PM |
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Jan 27 2005, 08:21 PM
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#173
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
I'm thinking quick-set epoxy and a threaded rod.
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Jan 27 2005, 08:36 PM
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#174
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,088 Joined: 8-October 04 From: Dallas, TX Member No.: 6,734 |
I was just using a cork as an example. Could you use a sliver of wood, for example? I keep thinking of the Last Crusade, with the rock in the turret.
OOO! Would a splat gun triggered on the barrel work? How would that be treated? Anything hitting the goo sticks, so would a bullet stick to it if the splat goo was in the barrel? Heh...the target for shooting a splat gun at the barrel of the gun would be astronomical, I would think. Called Shot at the very least, with probably +10 for the diameter of the barrel as well as any for moving, etc....altho the moving might be stopped if a previous splat gun shot was at the treads. |
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Jan 27 2005, 09:30 PM
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#175
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Two problems, one the sensors on a drone AFAIK aren't one directional. It's a sensor array, it should have a 360 field of view. Two, no spalt glue wouldnt stop a bullet. in the thousandth of a seconf the bullet would be in contact with it and the high temperatures the bullet was at I cant see anything happening except the splat glue being blasted out of the way. It may make the gun less acurate though, maybe a +1 to all TN's.
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