 Hand of God, Question for GM's |
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 Jan 29 2005, 01:04 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 21-January 05 Member No.: 7,005  |
How do you GM's handle the Hand of God rule in your games? In the past I have always gone by the book and allowed the players to have a single HoG instance that perm burns all Karma pool, and unallocated karma. The players are able to induce this ruling when they feel appropriate.
I wonder if anyone plays with HoG being at the GM's discretion . A good exapmle would be if you had a player who caused trouble for the rest of the group. If the HoG rule was only GM enforcable then this player could just be killed without a chance of redemption. Another way could be for the GM to roll a die when the player wanted to invoke the rule, if it comes up 6, then the player is saved. Or, maybe, the rule is disallowed altogether. What is everyone's take? |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:14 AM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
I run it as printed in the book...
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Jan 29 2005, 01:15 AM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
That's not going to fly around here. You can't decide arbitrarialy who can use HoG and who can't. If you have a major prob w/ one of your players, you're going to have to bite the bullet and talk him or her OOC. |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:19 AM
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#4
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Amen, that;s one of the main hallmarks of someone that shouldn't be GMing a game. |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:31 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 21-January 05 Member No.: 7,005 |
Good point, I could see it causing a problem when implemented at GM discretion now that you mention the whole fairness element. As I said earlier, I've always just played it by the book. Still, what about adding in the randomness factor, such as having to roll a six? It would make the HoG all that much more magnificent when it actually happens, and it would help eliminate metagamers from playing poorly by saying, "Hey, there's always Hand of God." Honestly, most of the players I know are great and think about the game in a serious way, but there is always that one player who just goes balls out and tends to wreck the other player's plans (ususally playing a troll). I will probably just play it by the book, but I'm bored at work and trying to pass time, hence the thread. |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:42 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
Good metagamers will avoid doing things to seriously put themselves in harm by doing math ahead of time. Hand of God is a brutal hit to your character, especially if you were saving up karma to do a high level initiation, bump up a high stat, or just about any of the other double digit things you can do with it. And there isn't always HoG, either. Read the rule carefully. Each character can only do it once. In my group if there was one reckless player who played that way because of the potential for HoG, he would use his HoG up really fast as another player or I would shoot him in the head. |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:42 AM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
There is always the HoG. But you only get to use it once per character, IIRC. IT comes at a hefty price, if you ask me. A price that is justified.
If you really have a problem with just one player, like I said, talk to him. Seriously. Especially if he's the one that is ruining the fun of the other players. If you let it go on for too long, eventually your players will try to "solve the problem" on thier own. Good luck! And welcome the 'Shock. :) |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:47 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
That's what I meant by "solve the problem" on thier own. ;) While I agree that it is an immensely rewarding feeling to waste another player that is a pain in the ass, it sets a bad precident...and onto the path of the Dark Side that act puts you. :) |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:54 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 21-January 05 Member No.: 7,005 |
I understand that it can only be used a single time. I guess I could be a real bastard to the trouble characters by just killing them again immediatly after thier HoG invocation. Generally I find that a character is already at S or M before the death blow anyway, so even after the HoG they will still be rife for the slaughter. I hate to play like that, though. I am hoping for the best with these new players, but I have a feeling that there will be issues with one in particular. He wanted to be a minotaur meta variant, but I had to say no to that. He ended up being a typical troll ganger tank type, which is fine. It bothers me when players go for a straight up power gaming stlye character, as I feel it really takes away a lot of possible depth from the character. It becomes not a character in a universe, but a series of numbers to be studied and analyzed. I made an rule for my players that they had to write me a background for themselves and a bio for all of thier contacts to hopefully alieviate the lack of depth that power gamers tend to have. |
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Jan 29 2005, 01:56 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 210 Joined: 8-October 04 Member No.: 6,736 |
On re-reading what I said and reading what you said in response, I feel compelled to clarify. My character or another player's character would waste the pita player's character. I generally will quit a group before I think about killing people...though boxing the pita player is sometimes really satisfying. |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:00 AM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
I run it straight out of the book. There've only been a couple of times that its even been necessary to use though.
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Jan 29 2005, 02:05 AM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
No dude, you can't do that either. Its the same as telling him he can't HoG. If he happens to get in a bind a little down the road, well...that's a different story and you'd be right to not cut him any slack. But you shouldn't go gunning for a character.
Now you're on to something. You never know, he may write a good background. Look, I'll level with you, in practice I'm a pretty half-assed GM but I have a lot of the theory down (much like I know how to do a backflip, I just can't do one). Keep hanging around DS and you learn volumes worth of stuff from the people that post here. |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:05 AM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I run it straight ot of the book but its never happened yet.
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Jan 29 2005, 02:07 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
kevyn668: He said he could, not that he wold. He even said he hated the idea. I think people are giving him less credit as a GM than he has shown. He has twice said that he didn't play i that way, and yet people keep telling him he's wrong for playing it that way.
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Jan 29 2005, 02:08 AM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
So what's it called when a high-level enemy NPC skates out of certain death? Hand of Satan?
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Jan 29 2005, 02:08 AM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
No. I understood you. I meant "character" as well. Its still not a good habit to get into. If you must do something in RL, I've found heavy doses of ridicule and the occasional thrown die or potato chip will work wonders. :) |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:09 AM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
"GM Fait" ;) edit: So, yeah. Pretty much hand of Satan. :D (Which is also looked down upon.) |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:10 AM
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#18
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Why? All's fair in love and death. As far as I can tell, NPCs should use ALL the karma rules, including Hand of God.
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Jan 29 2005, 02:13 AM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
That's it, I'm bringing back Janus Moriarty! My group will hate me. :D
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Jan 29 2005, 02:18 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 21-January 05 Member No.: 7,005 |
What about the situation where a character is an obvious magic user or Troll? If the players go up against any trained opponents, then they are going to try to kill these players first as they pose the greatest potential threat. Think about as if you were in the game, you are a security guard and you are attacked by a gigantic troll (who looks like he could step on you if he wanted to), and a few other smaller meta variants. If the other assailents only looked to be a mundane threat, who would you go for? I for one would choose the gigantic ass kicking troll. So in game, this Troll gets shot by a bunch of guards, and has to use HoG. Are you saying that I should just let him have a free ride through the rest of the combat? The way I see it, the guards are going to continue their assault until either they are dead or the troll is dead. I understand that it is a game and everything, but where exactly is the line between realism and fun? |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:18 AM
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#21
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
The only situation which I would not allow HoG is if a character is in a situation that obviously would kill him, like being drawn and quartered or standing next to ground zero of a tactical nuke. And even then, I might allow them to HoG, in a cloned body with an experimental consciousness transfer by Universal Omnitech or something silly like that, if the player really really wanted to continue playing as that character.
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Jan 29 2005, 02:21 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
I thought I was being pretty nice. He did discuss killing a character b/c the character is a pain. I don't think he's a bad GM. He just had a bad idea. Hell, happens to me all the time.
I was just teasin'. I think NPCs should make use of the HoG. They use cover, suppressing fire, and grenades. Why not HoG? |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:23 AM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 21-January 05 Member No.: 7,005 |
I have, in fact, used HoG for NPC many times, especially if they were a major opponent or enemy to the group. Hell, I've even brought an NPC back from the dead with more power later on just to harass the players. What's great about being a GM is that you can bend the rules sometimes, you've just got to watch and see the reaction of the players to see how far is too far. The thing is, they don't know what's going on behind the screen, and they don't need to. Sometimes I may fudge a roll in their favor, but other times who knows... |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:27 AM
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#24
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
I meant to say you shouldn't go gunning for a character b/c the player is an asshole.
That's legit. What I was saying is that you shouldn't make an example out of the character.
I guess that's up to you. |
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Jan 29 2005, 02:35 AM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 21-January 05 Member No.: 7,005 |
I get what your saying, now. Even if I were to do this, though, I wouldn't make it seems like I was making an exapmle. The other players are all pretty good. Still, though, I would hope that player gets the message. |
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