IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Datajacks, and the uses in multiples
Aku
post Jan 29 2005, 04:29 PM
Post #1


Running, running, running
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,220
Joined: 18-October 04
From: North Carolina
Member No.: 6,769



ok, this is in reference for a character i'm making for here, and the rules GM has already told me his stance on the subject, but i just wanted to see what "all ya's" thought on the subject.

The character is gonna be a sorta tech geek--that is, a decker/rigger. In a mud i played, and now i have found out that these rules are from matrix, that a rigger that decks gets a couple of penelties to TN and hacking pool, and i had asked if theres anyway to bypass these. THe rules GM said that a reflex trigger will negate those penelties. I then inquired about a second datajack, as he explained the reason had something to do with the VCR taking over certain portions of the datajack used for rigging, so to me, it would seem like having a dedicated jack for rigging and one for decking would also bypass this. He concurred. cool.

do you agree? or have any other insight? and if you agree both work, is there any advantage one way over the other?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Jan 29 2005, 04:36 PM
Post #2


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



Ignoring the question of the penalty and bypassing it, two datajacks are always useful. For a tech-oriented character, I never run with less anymore.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Aku
post Jan 29 2005, 04:38 PM
Post #3


Running, running, running
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,220
Joined: 18-October 04
From: North Carolina
Member No.: 6,769



ignoreing the fact that im a newb can i ask how so? I've heard about running multiple things at once, but i cant get my head around say, rigging, and decking simultaneously...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fix-it
post Jan 29 2005, 04:39 PM
Post #4


Creating a god with his own hands
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,405
Joined: 30-September 02
From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1
Member No.: 3,364



you can install a reflex trigger = to the rating of your VCR to eliminate associated matrix penalties.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The White Dwarf
post Jan 29 2005, 07:29 PM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 614
Joined: 17-June 03
From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas
Member No.: 4,754



Ok, first off the reflex trigger doesnt have a rating, its just an addition to a VCR (same as the wired reflexes one). If you buy that, you can toggle the VCR on and off, and eliminate the related penalties for decking and rigging through a single datajack.

Second, theres not much of a reason to not just buy 2 datajacks instead. Same essence, less nuyen, more versatility. Really, if the guy is gonna be tech-heavy, Id get at least 2 datajacks. And yes, this will also eliminate any related penalites as long as you only use each jack for its specified purpose.

Third, while one character can be capable of both rigging and decking, its not advisable to do them both at one time. Im not even sure you can by canon tbh. But if it is youre looking at something stupid like +8tn to both, probably worse, which means that even if you find out you can its not something youll ever be doing. So I wouldnt even waste time looking it up and just forget about it.

Fourth, you can use multiple datajacks at once. Just not for rigging and decking. You could, for example, be decking with one jack and using the second to access a storage memory unit. Or be rigging and using the other to access map data. This is one reason Id consider getting a 3rd datajack if youre going insanely techy, think about how many things youll be using at once within reason and make sure it works. Never hurts to be able to leave a datajack-accessed smartgun hooked up while youre jacked in, eh. Just be sure that it is all connected via Routers if youre using those rules, otherwise the data cant be channeled around.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post Jan 29 2005, 08:12 PM
Post #6


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



And remember, datajack ports don't have to be in the head.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akarenti
post Jan 29 2005, 08:29 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 152
Joined: 24-October 04
Member No.: 6,785



Also, Datajacks come with 3 free headware router connections. So 2 Datajacks allow you to transfer information between 5 other headware devices (assuming you use one connection to connect the two Datajacks). It's a little more essense heavy than a Router, but with all the above benefits, it deservess mentioning.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Necro Tech
post Jan 29 2005, 09:33 PM
Post #8


UMS O.G.
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 444
Joined: 18-May 04
Member No.: 6,335



Listen to White Dwarf. Think about everything you plan on doing at once and go from there. My tech nerd has 5 data jacks and three chip jacks plus a rating 8 router to keep his internal network running smoothly. Yes, I frequently max out my hardware.

Remember that multiple datajacks can be used for other characters. My sniper has three. Once for his communications (didn't want to waste internal space), one for the camera he leaves pointed behind him while sniping and the third either for his forward facing camera or skill jukebox. Data jack plus DNI is often waaaaay underutilized.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Jan 29 2005, 09:40 PM
Post #9


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



two datajacks will not solve the incompatibility issues involved in decking and VCRs. VCRs apparenly scramble your brain, or something, so that the mental impulses you use to deck come out all wacky. you need the reflex trigger to turn the VCR off, so that it doesn't do that. simply installing a second datajack won't do it, in 3rd ed, because it's not the datajack that's the problem.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wireknight
post Jan 29 2005, 09:44 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 527
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,118



Yeah. The "use a second datajack" concept was a holdover from Rigger 2. Rigger 3 and on require a reflex trigger for the VCR instead. I'm not entirely sure why they opted against the second datajack rule in the newer edition.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Necro Tech
post Jan 29 2005, 09:48 PM
Post #11


UMS O.G.
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 444
Joined: 18-May 04
Member No.: 6,335



Maybe they felt the reflex trigger was lonely and needed more diversity in its life, hence the VCR. I can see it now, "Reflex Trigger, not just for Samurai anymore."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Jan 29 2005, 10:22 PM
Post #12


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



QUOTE (Aku)
ignoreing the fact that im a newb can i ask how so? I've heard about running multiple things at once, but i cant get my head around say, rigging, and decking simultaneously...

Rigging and decking without having to swap plugs. Jump out of one and into the other.

The White Dwarf: TN'd be +4 for Decking without RAS Override active, and another +4 or +8 for meatbody actions while rigging. Otherwise, you covered the extra uses.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RunnerPaul
post Jan 29 2005, 10:45 PM
Post #13


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,086
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 364



QUOTE (Wireknight)
Yeah.  The "use a second datajack" concept was a holdover from Rigger 2.  Rigger 3 and on require a reflex trigger for the VCR instead.  I'm not entirely sure why they opted against the second datajack rule in the newer edition.

Me neither. To me, the second datajack solution was very simple and elegant. In my games, I use a hybrid. The player has to state what datajacks/routers/other headware their VCR is hooked into, and on those datajacks, or any other datajacks that share a connection path through routers/other headware, the penalty applies, unless the player uses a reflex trigger to turn off the VCR. If the character has a Datajack that's 'clean', that shares no connectivity with components hooked into the VCR, then they can use that datajack penalty free for decking.

This makes for some interesting cyberware installation questions. For example, there are a few things that headware memory can be useful for, with relation to Rigging, but if the Decker/Rigger wants to use headware memory for decking too, they have to get separate banks of memory put in, that don't cross-communicate with each other.

Of course the really hardcore Decker/Rigger Characters under this system will not only have a reflex trigger for the VCR, but also a pair of datajacks on both the "rigging" side of their headware, and the "decking" side, and a patch cable that they can run between datajacks on the two sides, for when they need connectivity between one side and the other.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The White Dwarf
post Jan 30 2005, 12:58 AM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 614
Joined: 17-June 03
From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas
Member No.: 4,754



Thanks for the actual values on the insane tn mods, not that anyone will be crazy enough to ever employ them =)

Got a page ref for the "2-datajacks-no-worky" for the vcr penalty? Im sure its correct jsut not something I use often and a ref be handy.

Glad my post was useful
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Aku
post Jan 30 2005, 01:28 AM
Post #15


Running, running, running
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,220
Joined: 18-October 04
From: North Carolina
Member No.: 6,769



That seems strange to me, onle because, if, in the conversion from sr2 to sr3 they decided to change it, i would think that there would be some mention of it somehow in SR3, but the onyl use for a reaction trigger is for the wired reflexes, nothing about the VCR.

if it was made in the conversion from Matrix 2- matrix 3, well, then what would the rule be if you had only 2 (or in my case, neither) but you knew that the REASON for the penelties was because the VCR took over part of the datajack's working, I would think the logical assumption would be then that a second jack would be useful to avoid the penelties.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Jan 30 2005, 02:35 AM
Post #16


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



there are a lot of changes between SR2 and SR3 that don't get explained in the main book. this is one of them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Necro Tech
post Jan 30 2005, 03:59 AM
Post #17


UMS O.G.
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 444
Joined: 18-May 04
Member No.: 6,335



The VCR does not interfere with any datajacks. It intefers with your brains ability to receive high end ASIST signals. It tries to react to incoming stimuli making it hard to concentrate on decking. Since wire systems have no off button, a VCR intefers with decking like Wired III interfers with ones ability to react appropriately when surprised. It moves faster than you can think.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Aku
post Jan 30 2005, 02:35 PM
Post #18


Running, running, running
*****

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,220
Joined: 18-October 04
From: North Carolina
Member No.: 6,769



ahh, now that makes sense to me as an explanation (as i dont yet have matrix to see the actual rule) thanks everyone for the opinions/help.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RunnerPaul
post Jan 30 2005, 06:46 PM
Post #19


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,086
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 364



QUOTE (Necro Tech)
The VCR does not interfere with any datajacks. It intefers with your brains ability to receive high end ASIST signals.

Excepting of course the high end ASIST signals generated by the Control Rig and Control Deck themselves.

Sorry, I have trouble buying into this one. The bulk of the metal-to-meat connections for the control rig deal with hijacking the organic processing power of the lower brain. I just don't see a plausible mechanism for the Rig to cause brain wide systemic effects.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Jan 30 2005, 07:12 PM
Post #20


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



VCRs use ASIST differently from decking. with decking, ASIST goes directly to the higher brain; with rigging, the ASIST signals are automatically routed to the middle brain. if the VCR is active, it routes all incoming ASIST signals to the middle brain first, because that's where they need to go for rigging. when it's turned off with a reflex trigger, the ASIST signals go directly to the higher brain.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RunnerPaul
post Jan 31 2005, 01:05 AM
Post #21


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,086
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 364



QUOTE (mfb)
VCRs use ASIST differently from decking. with decking, ASIST goes directly to the higher brain; with rigging, the ASIST signals are automatically routed to the middle brain. if the VCR is active, it routes all incoming ASIST signals to the middle brain first, because that's where they need to go for rigging.

So do you give your riggers any sorts of bonuses/penalties with regards to BTL addiction unless they use a reflex trigger to switch off their control rigs first?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mfb
post Jan 31 2005, 01:07 AM
Post #22


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670



no, because it can be assumed that, by default, ASIST signals are routed to the higher brain. VCRs are designed to alter that, which is why people with VCRs have trouble using ASIST for decking. VCRs change the default destination of ASIST signals; a reflex trigger resets that default.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RunnerPaul
post Jan 31 2005, 04:09 AM
Post #23


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,086
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 364



QUOTE (mfb)
no, because it can be assumed that, by default, ASIST signals are routed to the higher brain. VCRs are designed to alter that, which is why people with VCRs have trouble using ASIST for decking. VCRs change the default destination of ASIST signals; a reflex trigger resets that default.

That's just it though. BTL Addiction rules assume the "default case" for how the brain processes an ASIST signal. If you come out and say that a certain piece of 'ware makes the brain handle every type of ASIST in a way different than "default" (unless you have a second piece of ware that lets you switch back to default) then realistically, you have to look at all the other types of ASIST and figure out what the impact would be.

Take the case of a rigger who has a control rig and no reflex trigger for turning it off. Under your explanation, because of the rig, all incoming ASIST is focused away from the higher brain, and more twoards the middle/lower brain. What happens when this rigger slots a BTL?

Since the ASIST signals from the BTL are now focused at lower portions of the brain, one would expect that they'd likely have a more potent effect, since things like heartrate, adrenaline production, overall state of the endocrine system, and the bulk of what goes into the "Emotive" tracks on the BTL, all reside in those same lower portions of the brain.

On the flip side, you can say that having the ASIST focused on the lower brain deadens the external sensory tracks of the BTL, which spoils the overall effect, but that doesn't take into account moodchip BTLs which are all emotive track, with no external sensory tracks at all.

And that's just BTLs. That's not even looking at the other common types of ASIST your typical runner may deal with, which is everything from skillwires to smartgun links. ASIST is more than just rigging and decking, so to try to explain why a control rig penalizes decking by saying it changes how the brain processes all ASIST without even stopping to consider the other types of ASIST leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Jan 31 2005, 05:56 AM
Post #24


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



ASIST != Simsense.

Not that you don't have a point, but the BTL comparison is inaccurate.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Slait
post Jan 31 2005, 06:55 AM
Post #25


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 16-November 04
Member No.: 6,832



English Nazi Reply: As far as I know they are still discussing the plural of virus, and currently, viruses and virus are both acceptable
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th April 2024 - 10:16 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.