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> Customized Guns, Looking for a seriously Bad A$$ gun
Xavier
post Feb 1 2005, 10:02 PM
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I was looking through Cannon Companion and looking at making/customizing a gun. I was curious how many actually customize their guns.

What I am looking for is a SMG that i can run at FA mode with the maximum amoung of recoil comp. Is it possible to build a SMG that has 10 points of RC so that you could run one that is base damage of 6 or 7 M at 16 or 17 Deadly. and still have the TN be 2's if your smartlinked?


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Zeel De Mort
post Feb 1 2005, 10:08 PM
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Yes, just.
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Slamm-O
post Feb 1 2005, 10:09 PM
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can someone clarify this, i dont remember the RAW, but i know that in my group we run with recoil only going away at the end of the combat turn, with -2 recoil every phase and an additional -2 for each simple action taken to stableize the gun.

am i correct in remembering the canon rules as full recoil resetting every combat phase? thus allowing for fully compensated guns!?
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Method
post Feb 1 2005, 10:11 PM
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Yes, by cannon recoil does NOT carry over from one phase to the next.
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James McMurray
post Feb 1 2005, 10:12 PM
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Yep, recoil goes away at the end of the combat phase. SR3 p. 110.
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Mr.Sinister
post Feb 1 2005, 10:46 PM
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Light/Medium/Heavy Machine Guns can be built with RC: 2 as part of the gun itself (CC pg 77), then add the following extras:
Gas Vent IV - RC: 4
Foregrip - RC: 1
Stock - RC: 1
Personalized Grip - RC: 1

Combined, these generate RC: 9. I'm not sure if this is allowed or not, but you could also add Underbarrel Weight that has RC: 1 to the Foregrip, giving an additional point of RC totaling RC: 10. Now, some GMs may not allow this because both the weight and foregrip take the same "mount point" on the gun. However, in my opinon, someone should be able to combine the two into a "weighted foregrip" - since a foregrip is basically a pistol-type grip at the front of the weapon, there's no reason it can't be weighted.

Not sure if RC: 10 is needed, what is the recoil for FA fire anyway?
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mfb
post Feb 1 2005, 10:48 PM
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new guns, most made with the CC guide:
Pistols
Rifles
Shotguns
SMGs

the most RC you can get in an SMG is: -2 for internal RC; -4 for gas vent; -1 for foregrip; -1 for custom grips, for a total of -8. i don't think there's anything else you can do to the gun itself.
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James McMurray
post Feb 1 2005, 10:50 PM
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Per the rules weights and a foregrip can't be combined.

You do need recoil comp 10, because full auto recoil is equal to the number of rounds fired. However, you can get that last point by having high strength.

And don't forget to add a gyro-harness so you can fire 17 rounds from your super machinegun per round (or 13 rounds and run).
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Arethusa
post Feb 1 2005, 10:51 PM
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Sinister, you forgot shock pads. That's the canon way to hit 10.
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mfb
post Feb 1 2005, 10:54 PM
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shock pads only work on rifles, ARs, and shotguns. same with bullpup. i'm pretty sure SMGs can be built with internal RC, though i could be wrong.
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Gem the Troll
post Feb 1 2005, 11:25 PM
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Remember that at STR 4 (might be higher, no books handy) you get a point of recoil comp...you're able to hold the gun steady through brute force.
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mfb
post Feb 1 2005, 11:27 PM
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Str 6, as of CC.
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James McMurray
post Feb 1 2005, 11:28 PM
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You need a strength of 6 to get a point of recoil 12 will get you 2, and 19+ will get you 3.

edit: too slow, but more informative. :)
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Mr.Sinister
post Feb 1 2005, 11:37 PM
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I thought the number of rounds in FA is determined by the player and must be 6 or more rounds thus adding +6/+2 Damage Code to the normal damage code of the weapon and 6 recoil.

I don't have my SR3 book handy (at work)... does anyone have the exact info on SS/BF/FA and their respective effects?
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Zeel De Mort
post Feb 1 2005, 11:41 PM
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Okay okay, RC 10 for an SMG:

Base FCU: 1.5

Firing Mode: FA only, FCU: 0
Heavy Barrel, FCU: -0.25, RC +1
Improved FCU 4, FCU: +1
Increased Power 1, FCU: -0.25
Recoil Compensation 2, FCU: -1, RC +2
Gas Vent IV, FCU -1, RC +4
Personalised Grip, FCU: 0, RC +1
Remove Trigger, FCU: +0.5 when removed
Smartgun System (External) (Top), FCU -0.25
Stocks, FCU 0, RC +1
Underbarrel Weight, FCU: -0.25, RC +1

All FCU used up, RC 10, 7M FA only, Smartlink. Ta da!

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James McMurray
post Feb 1 2005, 11:46 PM
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And here we see the silliness available in the build your own gun rules.

If this gun is available, it would eventually cover almost the entire market, at least for close combat guns. There would be no need to buy pistols except holdout pistols, and no need to buy any other SMG. I'm not sure, but I assume you can get roughly the same results from an assault rifle or L/M/SMG.
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BitBasher
post Feb 1 2005, 11:47 PM
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Heavy Barrel?
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Mr.Sinister
post Feb 1 2005, 11:50 PM
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Heavy Barrel is found in CC:Pg 75-76 and says "A heavier barrel can help reduce the shock of firing the firearm. Treat weapons equipped with a heavy barrel as if they had 1 point of integral recoil compensation."
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Zeel De Mort
post Feb 1 2005, 11:50 PM
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Yep, it's pretty silly. You'll note I didn't include the price though. If you bother to work that out it'll be, well, very expensive. Which is one good reason you might not see it in mass production. The other reasons relate to it being physically impossible etc.

It's certainly about as easy with an AR, and I'd assume not overly difficult for an LMG/MMG/HMG.


Heavy Barrel, yep, Design Option p75 CC (right down at the bottom). Gives +1 RC (over the page).
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Mr.Sinister
post Feb 1 2005, 11:56 PM
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I may just have to get a heavy barrel for my FN-HAR. Hmmm...
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Zeel De Mort
post Feb 1 2005, 11:59 PM
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Well, it's a design option so, strictly speaking, you would have to redsign the weapon again to be exactly the same, but with a heavy barrel. That is, if you want to stick completely rigidly to the customisation rules, which not all that many people do for one reason or another. :)
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gamemaster
post Feb 2 2005, 12:08 AM
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let me help clear this up...xaviers a player in my group who just got torn in two by an undercover troll swat team member ,his teammates finally downed him with a version of the weapon he wants to build...that his old character built.its an awsome weapon and yes its powerfull but the cost would keep it very low key on the street ....plus i will let him know now.....1- it will have a very distinctive sound to it.2-people will want it.3- cant create it at character creation so will have to save up his money and make it after the game starts.which will keep him from owning 10 of them at game start.sorry xavier but im god.....
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mfb
post Feb 2 2005, 12:10 AM
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sounds fair to me. i generally don't allow players to have custom gear at chargen.
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BitBasher
post Feb 2 2005, 12:12 AM
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Cause apparently no gun in SR has an aftermarket Bull Barrel option :P
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Sabosect
post Feb 2 2005, 12:13 AM
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I allow it, but only if they take the Distinctive Style, Hunted, and Extra Enemy flaws. And the points those were normally grant are traded for a single custom item but do count against the limit of total edges and flaws they can have.
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