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> Vampirism In The 6th World..., Is there anything beyond HMHVV
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post Feb 6 2005, 12:21 PM
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Ohayo, chummers.
Something has been bothering me bout the SR universe. Can one be so daring as to say, make up your own rules concerning vampires in SR? I just feel that the disease being a virus lacks a little class, and what if one was to get this overwhelming need to pit your players against a 2000 year old killing machine? I need some opinions, and if your opinion is on the positive side, feel free to add advice on rules for this thing... :nuyen:
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DrJest
post Feb 6 2005, 12:57 PM
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My game featured two kinds of vampire. The HMHVV vampires were a relatively recent phenomenon, and far more numerous. But there were True Vampires as well, all involved in an intricate jockeying for position based on elements taken from Highlander, Vampire: The Masquerade, The Great Game of the elves, etc. The PC's were peripherally involved since one of the vamps would occasionally hire them to pursue some goal that made little sense at the time - eg, breaking into a Renraku facility in San Fran to steal a flask of dried blood that was actually the "dead" form of a rival vampire so that the Johnson would have the rescuee owe him obligation.

The True Vampires were descended from Lazarus, the first vampire in the world. The secret point of their Game was believed to be to determine who was going to be allowed into Heaven, but there was no proof.
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Jrayjoker
post Feb 6 2005, 01:52 PM
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It is all up to you, but the players don't have to know that vampirism is a result of a virus, and who says there aren't 2000 year old vampires in the SR universe. Immortal elves made it through the down cycle, why not vamps.
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Ancient History
post Feb 6 2005, 02:06 PM
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<shrug> There was a 400-year-old nosferatu, a 2,000-year old bloodsucker isn't beyond imagination.
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Snow_Fox
post Feb 6 2005, 02:33 PM
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It's a virus with no cure, which seems...odd. You could probably work something on that.

If you read just the powers granted to vamps, enhanced senses and abilitys it's less how old they are than their atittude. You add essence to strength, body and quickness, ehanced sight, smell and hearing. and you've got someone in better shape than you average oylmpian. Think about it, average street Joe(scores all 3) gets his vampire essence to 6 and he's got straight 9's in physical stuff. He can hear you and smell you sneaking up on him. Outrun pursuers, shrug off hits that would stagger most urban brawlers and probably wrestle a troll.

Odds are this guy would learn some combat training/marttial arts so he's going to be better able to use his strength in a fight. and although it seems odd, for a vamp to use a gun, a GM might allow the ehanced vision to improve accuracy like optics.

We have a house rule that essence gets added to charisma too. explaining the draw of a vamp since popular litterature (Ann Rice, Laurel K Hamilton, Barbara Hambly) have vamps as stunningly beautiful.

All this is just the number crunching. as played a vamp could be a punk gang leader who runs through being tougher than his peers or a corporate boss who manipulates his peers.

the ones we've encounterred included:
A former mob enforcer who was running a health club.(and dining off the patrons)

A BTL dealer selling to HS student's (can't pay :nuyen: -ok we'll deal)

A Music producer- who was legitimate but made us really really nervous.

A Race car driver who would weaken competiton he couldn't legitimately beat on the road.

A Corp lawyer (ok blood sucking lawyer, bad joke) Who ruled her division with an iron fist . apparent from turning her two secretaries into Vampiric pawns she didn't use her powers it just made her really tough when we got down to it.)

Enforcer at a brothel.

(that may seem like a lot but we've been playing on and off since 1st ed came out.)
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Grinder
post Feb 6 2005, 04:07 PM
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I would take a look at the Immortal Nazi Elves: they lived the during the 5,000 years-downcycle without much problems - so why shouldn't vampires being able to do the same? Maybe in some kind of deep silent slumber or sth. like that.

Remember: "it's a kind of magic, magic" ;)
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akarenti
post Feb 6 2005, 10:05 PM
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I believe the Incense Master of the Yellow Lotus Triad in Seattle is a "ancient chinese vampire" or something like that, for what its worth.
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Zeel De Mort
post Feb 7 2005, 12:28 AM
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Which books are this 400 year old Nosferatu and ancient Chinese Vampire in? I'm guessing an SR Novel and Underworld Sourcebook respectively? Just asking as I'd be interested to read what it says about them, and own neither of these. :)

What's the explanation for them existing during the down cycle when the mana level is so low? Immunities (i.e. to age) still work, but other powers are curbed significantly or what?
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Dizzo Dizzman
post Feb 7 2005, 12:33 AM
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The Incense Master of the Yellow Lotus is mentioned in New Seattle. I haven't heard of immortal Nazi Elves before.

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FlakJacket
post Feb 7 2005, 12:46 AM
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The four hundred year old Nosferatu is from the novel 'Nosferatu' by Carl Sargent and Marc Gascoigne. The nazi reference is from the novel 'Worlds Without End' by Caroline Spector, where one of the IE's is mentioned to have become the girlfriend of one of the high ranking Nazi's in the 1930/40's - probably in a bid to gain influence and power.

Edit: The Yellow Lotus incense master also turns up in one of the published adventures, Mob War! I think it was.
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Ancient History
post Feb 7 2005, 01:08 AM
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The immortal Nazi elf is Alachia, natch.

Hibernation isn't really necessary, if someone with the dormant form of the virus is in an area during a mana surge, or bitten by someone with the active virus in such an area, then they'll transform. Hell, certain blood rituals on a site of power could conceivably build up enough juice.
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FlakJacket
post Feb 7 2005, 01:33 AM
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Maybe a strong enough power site, even during the down cycle if it's large enough, is capable of activating the virus. If like the Horrors they can survive with lower mana levels after the initial higher level, then you've a mobile vampire. If however they need the heightened mana level all the time to keep it active/survive that means they're now limited to a small area. Cue mysterious local reclusive lord living in spooky castle/mansion.

Say, wasn't it mentioned in one of the books recently that Ukraine annexed the Transylvania region of Romania? Maybe it was just territorial expansion but a powerful enough power site might be tempting. To a lot of people, both individuals and organisation, never mind governments. :)
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otaku mike
post Feb 7 2005, 04:36 AM
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There was another vampire related topic some time ago, that refered to an even older topic on the previous incarnation of this forums.
I gathered the info and compiled/edited it.
You can download the PDF here:
LINK
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post Feb 7 2005, 06:06 AM
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QUOTE (FlakJacket)
The nazi reference is from the novel 'Worlds Without End' by Caroline Spector, where one of the IE's is mentioned to have become the girlfriend of one of the high ranking Nazi's in the 1930/40's - probably in a bid to gain influence and power.

She was Eva friggin' Braun!
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Mensche
post Feb 7 2005, 06:43 AM
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I like the idea of vampires and liches carrying over. even ghouls. ancient entities that masked themselves as humans or simply remain invisible.
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Shanshu Freeman
post Feb 7 2005, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
QUOTE (FlakJacket @ Feb 6 2005, 05:46 PM)
The nazi reference is from the novel 'Worlds Without End' by Caroline Spector, where one of the IE's is mentioned to have become the girlfriend of one of the high ranking Nazi's in the 1930/40's - probably in a bid to gain influence and power.

She was Eva friggin' Braun!

damn, I bet she was kicking herself for picking the wrong pony.
wonder if that's a habit of hers?

I can see how that elitist garbage would be attractive to her though.
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Ancient History
post Feb 7 2005, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE (otaku mike)
There was another vampire related topic some time ago, that refered to an even older topic on the previous incarnation of this forums.
I gathered the info and compiled/edited it.
You can download the PDF here:
LINK

That's pretty good Mike. My only qualm is that it doesn't go into those creatures that can't pass on the virus, variants, or the Ordo Maximus. No biggy though.

Truth be told, I was worried you were going to bringup the ED vampire debate again... :P
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Garland
post Feb 7 2005, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
It's a virus with no cure, which seems...odd. You could probably work something on that.

There's a cure. It comes in 32 round detachable box magazines.

QUOTE
We have a house rule that essence gets added to charisma too. explaining the draw of a vamp since popular litterature (Ann Rice, Laurel K Hamilton, Barbara Hambly) have vamps as stunningly beautiful.


Oh, bleg.
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Grinder
post Feb 7 2005, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
We have a house rule that essence gets added to charisma too. explaining the draw of a vamp since popular litterature (Ann Rice, Laurel K Hamilton, Barbara Hambly) have vamps as stunningly beautiful.


So my face with charisma 6 but essence 3 (skillwires and other non-combat cyber) would be less attractive than the mage with charisma 6 and essence 6?

hm, don't know....
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Ancient History
post Feb 7 2005, 01:34 PM
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Yeah, but your face would be frickin' scarier.
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Reaver
post Feb 7 2005, 01:54 PM
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If you want to really mix the players up, have the "real" vampires be the one's from the world of darkness. Frankly, WOD vampires make a little more sense and you have a multitude of fluff to work with. The Camarilla and Sabbat also make a far more dangerous enemy to torque off.

Besides, the virus infected vampires are actually the creation of the masqeurade (or really weak generation, were not sure which). ;o)
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otaku mike
post Feb 7 2005, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
QUOTE (otaku mike @ Feb 7 2005, 04:36 AM)
LINK

That's pretty good Mike. My only qualm is that it doesn't go into those creatures that can't pass on the virus, variants, or the Ordo Maximus. No biggy though.

Well, I'd like to say that I didn't write anything in that document, I just gathered the texts from the various posts, as most of them were writen IC.
For complaints, dig through the Dumpshock archives to find the original authors, or better, write something yourself you want me to add, and I'll add it to the doc. (But I guess you're a bit busy right now ;) )
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Ancient History
post Feb 7 2005, 04:35 PM
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Just a tad and hope to be busier. I do need to revise, expand, and update my Infected page.
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BitBasher
post Feb 7 2005, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE
Besides, the virus infected vampires are actually the creation of the masqeurade (or really weak generation, were not sure which). ;o)
If you believe that I think you should check your publish dates of SR versus VTM... :)

[opinion rant]
I personally like SR vampires because they AREN'T a complete retread of hack authors and goths vampire fetishes. I like that the ledgends were off, and vamps aren't what people thought they were. I think that has a whole lot more character to do things with than some retread of WW or anne rice "I'm a vampire rock star that saved teh (intentional misspelling) world while staying angsty" bullshit. It's overdone, and it's totally unoriginal.

It's as lame as ninjas in black pyjamas not using gun wearing ruthenium or the combat hardened merc running the shadows with a totally generic background. It's the SR equivalent of schlock fiction. It's the B movie equivalent of roleplaying. It's munchkin logic on a stick.

Make characters not caricatures. Make a believable world filled with realistic characters with goals and dreams and aspirations, not cardboard cutout bad guys that are simply there for "wow" and "cool" factor.

IMHO SR should be about the players, NOT about the NPC's. The player's lives and their struggles are the star of the show. If an NPC overshadows the players, or god forbid joins the party and does their work for them just to seem cool, Then I think the GM is failing. The players should be attached to their characters and love the game because of the trials and difficulties they overcome, the personalities that make them living, breathing people. Focusing on cool enemies detracts from the players struggle and lives and turns the focus to the NPCs.

God I hate that. Sorry for the rant.
[/opinion rant]
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Jrayjoker
post Feb 7 2005, 06:46 PM
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Share how you really feel.....
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