Shadowrun: Cyberpunk and what's next? Options

[Demonseed Elite]

The mentioning in the other thread about Shadowrun being "furry" got me thinking. Long ago, Shadowrun was a spin off the cyberpunk genre, complete with its typical elements of dehumanizing technology, faceless megacorporations, edgy yakuza, chrome, leather, and cyberdecks. Since then, the authors of the cyberpunk genre, people like William Gibson and Bruce Sterling, have said that cyberpunk is a literary genre of the past, less relevent in the modern age and having suffered from its elements being commercialized (Shadowrun, interestingly enough, being an element of that commercialization).

Since then, those authors, as well as others, have moved into what they call "post-cyberpunk" and "slipstream" literature. Post-cyberpunk has many elements of the cyberpunk genre, but its characters are usually less dehumanized and more an integral part of an evolving world. Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age is seen as a good example of post-cyberpunk literature. Slipstream literature is usually rooted in the existing real life day, but with a fantastical twist of some sort. Books like William Gibson's All Tomorrow's Parties or Tad William's Otherland books are seen as slipstream, as well as most of Bruce Sterling's recent books.

Anyway, the point of this thread is that when I sit and look at it, it seems to me like Shadowrun is picking up these fundamental changes, intentionally or not, and it is shaping the game. Technology has become less dehumanizing in Shadowrun; most players don't use cyberware to make their characters "inhuman" but are leaning towards more unobtrusive 'ware or bioware. Decking moves more towards "Matrix-on-the-go" and working deckers into mainstream play, as opposed to seperating them into their own isolated world.

What about the faceless megacorporations? Well, I'd argue they've become less faceless. The corporations have been linked to "personalities", either in the corporation itself or in key celebrity figures in the corporation (Richard Villiers, Damien Knight, Lofwyr, etc.). In addition, the overwhelming power of the "Big Eight" has not only been expanded to ten, but has been eroded by an increased focusing on smaller corporations and the entire corporate world as a business ecology.

Elements like yakuza, chrome, leather, and cyberdecks are fading away into a myriad mass of evolving ideas. The yakuza are one of many; not only in the criminal element of SR, but now so much of the game also revolves around organizations people form to fulfill a role in the global society. The Draco Foundation, Yucatan rebels, the New Revolution, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. The world is not run entirely by megacorporations anymore. Icons like chrome and leather and cyberdeck cables have turned into orksploitation, neo-tribalism, and the Wireless Matrix Initiative.

The world of Shadowrun is looking more like our own real world with a fantastical twist, like Slipstream literature. It's even moving towards mimicking elements in the real world, like wireless technology or genetic engineering, in exchange for sticking to traditional cyberpunk elements. Shadowrunners have moved away from being dehumanized, obsolete humanity railing against a corrupt social order and more towards an underground, but necessary, facet of 2064's social order who help define the world, even if that isn't their goal. Just look at how many of the recent events in Shadowrun's world were influenced by the actions of shadowrunners. They are far from being cut out of the world; their strings pulled by faceless megacorps. The world of Shadowrun is populated by hundreds, if not thousands, of communities based on various ideals that form an ecology in the world, more like The Diamond Age's phyles or Snow Crash's franchised institutions than Neuromancer's faceless, monolithic megacorps. Even Shadowrun's recent horrors, like the Renraku Arcology shutdown, were an optimistic view of technology (the ideal of a perfectly-run and user-friendly arcology) turned horribly wrong by the frailities of humanity (religious otaku cults and an AI who seeks basic "human" rights).

And when you factor in magic, Shadowrun's truly fantastical twist on an otherwise very "realistic" world, it's mostly a humanizing factor, not a dehumanizing one. Magic empowers the individual, is based on communal ideas of schools and religions, and brings people together in ritual and ceremony as opposed to the cyberpunk idea of technology seperating people and dehumanizing them.

Anyway, I wouldn't be afraid of the idea that Shadowrun is drifting from cyberpunk ideals, because even cyberpunk has drifted from cyberpunk ideals. I think it's more interesting to talk about what Shadowrun might become in light of these literary and social changes.

[Ancient History]

Ah, c'mon DE. Throw a little John Shirley in there, hit the roots rather than the tree.

Seriously, we're rapidly reaching the end of definative trends and styles in literature. The Mirrorshades group has moved up and out, and so has everyone else, just like music is no longer "Rock n'Roll." So maybe SR is a little less punk and a little more like the future as it would be today. It's grown up a little. I think that's all to the good.

[Demonseed Elite]

I'd definitely include John Shirley in the whole phenomenon. He's one of the fundamental (if not the fundamental) cyberpunk author, and even his recent works reflect the changes that have gone on in the genre.

And yeah, I agree that SR is growing up and that it's a good thing, and that the players should struggle less with Shadowrun's moving away from cyberpunk ideals and focus more on what Shadowrun should be from here.

[Patrick Goodman]

[nezumi]

Good way of putting it, DE. I've looked back on CP2020 and the like, and really, the games seem to lose their appeal fast. I don't share the dreams or fears they try to capture. While I do enjoy putting my shadowrunners in that sort of position occaisionally, the fact is it is becoming more 'slip stream', and those are the stories they seem to appreciate more.

Nevertheless, it does bring a tear to my eye. Our little boy is getting all grown up! *sniff* I'll miss you, silly +1 to impact leather armor, and you too mister mullet guy fighting all the ghouls.

*sigh*

[Demonseed Elite]

[GentlemanLoser]

You mean Billy CromeArm? :P

[Jrayjoker]

IIRC part of the reason SR3 has moved away from the bitter disenfranchisement of cyberpunk is because the people who GMed it and played it had a significant impact on the development of the game. Part of 3rd Ed's intro actually credits the evolution to input from GMs and players of the previous two editions.

Frankly I am very pleased that the world view has changed from the anti-utopian feel of cyberpunk to a more credible future-fantasy with all the inherent difficulties that the changes have wrought.

I could never get into the pure cyberpunk world in part because it took a lot more energy than I was willing to expend to remain bitter and disenfranchised for an entire gaming session. I guess that is why I couldn't stay Goth that long either. :spin:

[Birdy]

Looking at the trends both in Shadowrun, roleplaying in general and literature:

+ They go further down the "Your either a mage or you're useless" road

+ SR get's another FeyFantasy with guns POS


Birdy

[Jrayjoker]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Xirces]

I think that the whole notion of Cyberpunk and thus SR (still) is that the protaganists of the story (ie, the players) should be fighting against the extremes of (current, modern day, RL) society as projected into a future world where everything is much worse. Back in the 80s it seemed like the future would either be CP (Japanacorps, big brother etc) or some sort of post-apocalypic thing. It just looks a bit naive now.

Look at what's shaping our world today - big government *in conjunction with* big corps - American/Western corruption, control of citizens, the environment, the media - some of the themes are the same, but look how things are different and project forward 60 years, toss in magic and stir well...

When SR was writtten I'd never used the Internet - I had no idea of what a multinational information source (like the matrix) could do - even just the simple act of discussing a SR sourcebook was impossible beyond your immediate friends. There was no notion of information sharing in that way, controls been handed on down from the music and cinema industries fighting for their lives. Anyone in their late teens/early twenties now cannot imagine just how different the world is, in so many ways.

In some ways we've lived through the revolution, but there's still a fight - good SciFi literature should point us to where we'll be and what will happen and beyond all else - SR is good scifi literature.

(that probably made more sense to me. Flu remedies and wine don't mix.)

[Nath]

Transporting the cyberpunk genre in Seattle in 1989 ought to naturally result in something with lighter tone, that we could have appropriately called "cybergrunge" ;)

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[The Grifter]

[hahnsoo]

The central themes behind cyberpunk are mostly relevant in Shadowrun, although I agree that Shadowrun is more of an alternate history (similar to historical fiction novels) than traditional cyberpunk. The main themes are Man's inhumanity to Man, the dehumanization of Humanity through the ravages of poverty, industrialization, and social injustice, and the meaning of consciousness. Themes like these also are found in literature in the early 1900s (books like "The Jungle" and to some extent, the Communist Manifesto) born out of the industrial revolution, but Information Age technology adds a new wrinkle to the whole equation. These themes are still relevant in Shadowrun, perhaps even more so than in traditional cyberpunk because it is based on the trappings of a real world and the introduction of magic not as a panacea, but as another way that "technology" contributes to societal injustice (as the arguments over at the Adepts of SOTA 2064 thread suggest) and dehumanization.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

What's this "justice" thing you speak of?

[hahnsoo]

[Edward]

Part of this evolution is the logical extension of a true cyberpunk world given human nature and intelegent corporate operatives.

A faceless megacorperation is going to be preserved distant and hurtful buy the public, this will damage the bottom line so they present a public face. And while it is true that shadowruners have influenced major events that is usually one very lucky group of runners in the rite place at the right time. very rarely can a runner choose to do something that truly affects a megacorp.

As to the move to les obvious ware this to is a logical evolution, most runners prefer not to be seen or to be seen and ignored, this is a lot harder with a shiny creme cyber arm, ask a navy seal to carry a dozen mirrors on the outside of his gear on a mission and what is he going to say. I would have liked to see cyber arms be ether cheaper or stronger so they have something to offer over muscle toner and booster but t the least they should be vaguely flesh toned and coverable with a shirt (even the obvious ones) to get away from the shiny thing giving away your location problems.

Faith can never disappear, especially in a downtrodden population. What people have faith in can change but belief in something good and greater than yourself is the only way to stay relatively sane when there is no hope of bettering your situation and the only step don is somebody steals your box (I say relatively sain as arguably faith is a delusion depending on wether r not your right, and they cant all be right).

I think it makes much more sense as it is in SR

Edward

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Crimson Jack]

I love the evolution of the game. Couldn't be happier. I cringed a bit when I read about SURGE, but its a flavor thing really and there are plenty of elements of the game that I only use when I need to.

The point about the metallic shiny arm thing is both funny yet understandable. It only takes a few hundred dead street sams before the next generation realizes that low-key is better than flashy, for running. Its a logical progression.

I found that "furry" comment an unusual way to describe the evolution of the game btw.

[Paul]

CD2.0 said most of what I would have, but I'll come backlater to say more. Work is soon, so my time is pressed.

Growing up doesn't mean you have to stop being cool, or that you run out of ideas.

[Crimson Jack]

[DarusGrey]

[Pistons]