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Demonseed Elite
post Feb 8 2005, 03:56 PM
Post #1


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The mentioning in the other thread about Shadowrun being "furry" got me thinking. Long ago, Shadowrun was a spin off the cyberpunk genre, complete with its typical elements of dehumanizing technology, faceless megacorporations, edgy yakuza, chrome, leather, and cyberdecks. Since then, the authors of the cyberpunk genre, people like William Gibson and Bruce Sterling, have said that cyberpunk is a literary genre of the past, less relevent in the modern age and having suffered from its elements being commercialized (Shadowrun, interestingly enough, being an element of that commercialization).

Since then, those authors, as well as others, have moved into what they call "post-cyberpunk" and "slipstream" literature. Post-cyberpunk has many elements of the cyberpunk genre, but its characters are usually less dehumanized and more an integral part of an evolving world. Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age is seen as a good example of post-cyberpunk literature. Slipstream literature is usually rooted in the existing real life day, but with a fantastical twist of some sort. Books like William Gibson's All Tomorrow's Parties or Tad William's Otherland books are seen as slipstream, as well as most of Bruce Sterling's recent books.

Anyway, the point of this thread is that when I sit and look at it, it seems to me like Shadowrun is picking up these fundamental changes, intentionally or not, and it is shaping the game. Technology has become less dehumanizing in Shadowrun; most players don't use cyberware to make their characters "inhuman" but are leaning towards more unobtrusive 'ware or bioware. Decking moves more towards "Matrix-on-the-go" and working deckers into mainstream play, as opposed to seperating them into their own isolated world.

What about the faceless megacorporations? Well, I'd argue they've become less faceless. The corporations have been linked to "personalities", either in the corporation itself or in key celebrity figures in the corporation (Richard Villiers, Damien Knight, Lofwyr, etc.). In addition, the overwhelming power of the "Big Eight" has not only been expanded to ten, but has been eroded by an increased focusing on smaller corporations and the entire corporate world as a business ecology.

Elements like yakuza, chrome, leather, and cyberdecks are fading away into a myriad mass of evolving ideas. The yakuza are one of many; not only in the criminal element of SR, but now so much of the game also revolves around organizations people form to fulfill a role in the global society. The Draco Foundation, Yucatan rebels, the New Revolution, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. The world is not run entirely by megacorporations anymore. Icons like chrome and leather and cyberdeck cables have turned into orksploitation, neo-tribalism, and the Wireless Matrix Initiative.

The world of Shadowrun is looking more like our own real world with a fantastical twist, like Slipstream literature. It's even moving towards mimicking elements in the real world, like wireless technology or genetic engineering, in exchange for sticking to traditional cyberpunk elements. Shadowrunners have moved away from being dehumanized, obsolete humanity railing against a corrupt social order and more towards an underground, but necessary, facet of 2064's social order who help define the world, even if that isn't their goal. Just look at how many of the recent events in Shadowrun's world were influenced by the actions of shadowrunners. They are far from being cut out of the world; their strings pulled by faceless megacorps. The world of Shadowrun is populated by hundreds, if not thousands, of communities based on various ideals that form an ecology in the world, more like The Diamond Age's phyles or Snow Crash's franchised institutions than Neuromancer's faceless, monolithic megacorps. Even Shadowrun's recent horrors, like the Renraku Arcology shutdown, were an optimistic view of technology (the ideal of a perfectly-run and user-friendly arcology) turned horribly wrong by the frailities of humanity (religious otaku cults and an AI who seeks basic "human" rights).

And when you factor in magic, Shadowrun's truly fantastical twist on an otherwise very "realistic" world, it's mostly a humanizing factor, not a dehumanizing one. Magic empowers the individual, is based on communal ideas of schools and religions, and brings people together in ritual and ceremony as opposed to the cyberpunk idea of technology seperating people and dehumanizing them.

Anyway, I wouldn't be afraid of the idea that Shadowrun is drifting from cyberpunk ideals, because even cyberpunk has drifted from cyberpunk ideals. I think it's more interesting to talk about what Shadowrun might become in light of these literary and social changes.
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- Demonseed Elite   Shadowrun: Cyberpunk and what's next?   Feb 8 2005, 03:56 PM
- - Ancient History   Ah, c'mon DE. Throw a little John Shirley in t...   Feb 8 2005, 04:06 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   I'd definitely include John Shirley in the who...   Feb 8 2005, 04:28 PM
- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (Ancient History) So maybe SR is a little le...   Feb 8 2005, 04:29 PM
- - nezumi   Good way of putting it, DE. I've looked back ...   Feb 8 2005, 04:35 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE Nevertheless, it does bring a tear to my eye...   Feb 8 2005, 05:13 PM
- - GentlemanLoser   You mean Billy CromeArm?   Feb 8 2005, 05:19 PM
- - Jrayjoker   IIRC part of the reason SR3 has moved away from th...   Feb 8 2005, 05:31 PM
- - Birdy   Looking at the trends both in Shadowrun, roleplayi...   Feb 8 2005, 05:45 PM
- - Jrayjoker   QUOTE (Birdy) Looking at the trends both in Shadow...   Feb 8 2005, 06:36 PM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Feb 8 2005, 08:56 AM...   Feb 8 2005, 08:43 PM
- - Xirces   I think that the whole notion of Cyberpunk and thu...   Feb 8 2005, 10:02 PM
- - Nath   Transporting the cyberpunk genre in Seattle in 198...   Feb 8 2005, 11:10 PM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Xirces)I think that the whole notion of Cyb...   Feb 8 2005, 11:12 PM
- - The Grifter   QUOTE and you too mister mullet guy fighting all ...   Feb 8 2005, 11:36 PM
- - hahnsoo   The central themes behind cyberpunk are mostly rel...   Feb 9 2005, 12:07 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   What's this "justice" thing you spea...   Feb 9 2005, 12:14 AM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) What's this "just...   Feb 9 2005, 12:16 AM
- - Edward   Part of this evolution is the logical extension of...   Feb 9 2005, 01:14 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (hahnsoo) QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ Feb ...   Feb 9 2005, 01:19 AM
- - Crimson Jack   I love the evolution of the game. Couldn't be...   Feb 9 2005, 01:19 AM
- - Paul   CD2.0 said most of what I would have, but I'll...   Feb 9 2005, 01:25 AM
- - Crimson Jack   QUOTE (Paul) Growing up doesn't mean you have ...   Feb 9 2005, 01:28 AM
- - DarusGrey   QUOTE The idea of corps controlling everything sou...   Feb 9 2005, 01:54 AM
- - Pistons   QUOTE (Crimson Jack) QUOTE (Paul @ Feb 8 2005...   Feb 9 2005, 03:17 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Crimson Jack) I love the evolution of the g...   Feb 9 2005, 03:26 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (DarusGrey) This is somewhat true and untrue...   Feb 9 2005, 03:34 AM
- - DarusGrey   Yes, but my point is given the oppurtunity(via at ...   Feb 9 2005, 04:51 AM
- - Paul   QUOTE (Crimson Jack @ Feb 8 2005, 09:28 PM) Q...   Feb 9 2005, 06:22 PM
- - Paul   Okay I ca't figure out why my post is fuxxored...   Feb 9 2005, 06:27 PM
- - mfb   you have to note who's being quoted. {quote=mf...   Feb 9 2005, 06:37 PM
- - Nath   Nah, you don't need to specify a name. I think...   Feb 9 2005, 06:51 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   Paul, you're interpreting some of my opinions ...   Feb 9 2005, 07:11 PM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) Personal views about relig...   Feb 9 2005, 07:22 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE Cybermancy? Blood Magic? Bugs (specifically...   Feb 9 2005, 07:36 PM
- - hahnsoo   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) Most of these things aren...   Feb 9 2005, 08:07 PM
- - Garland   I think magic can be a little dehumanising, on the...   Feb 9 2005, 08:14 PM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   They strive to live up to the principles of their ...   Feb 9 2005, 08:37 PM
- - Rev   Company towns have existed, and do exist now. Pla...   Feb 9 2005, 08:46 PM
- - Paul   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) Paul, you're interpret...   Feb 9 2005, 09:03 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Paul)How many people turn to the internet f...   Feb 9 2005, 09:11 PM
- - Garland   QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0) They strive to live up to ...   Feb 9 2005, 09:20 PM
- - Wireknight   I wrote a section for SOTA:2063 on health spells...   Feb 9 2005, 09:56 PM
- - 3278   QUOTE ("Demonseed Elite")Which has crept...   Feb 9 2005, 11:43 PM
- - Paul   QUOTE (mfb) QUOTE (Paul)How many people turn to th...   Feb 9 2005, 11:57 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE I thought it was derivative survival-horror ...   Feb 10 2005, 12:00 AM
- - mfb   QUOTE (Paul)Obviously my version differs from your...   Feb 10 2005, 01:03 AM
- - Wireknight   Heh, it's the post-Cyberpunk theme and ideas, ...   Feb 10 2005, 01:13 AM
- - mfb   they let neal stephenson roam the streets...   Feb 10 2005, 01:58 AM
- - Cynic project   Tell ya what you get bioware that you can make in ...   Feb 10 2005, 02:00 AM
- - Wireknight   QUOTE (mfb) they let neal stephenson roam the stre...   Feb 10 2005, 03:03 AM
- - Req   Just so long as he shuts the hell up about what go...   Feb 10 2005, 03:08 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   One of the interesting things about having moved a...   Feb 10 2005, 05:44 AM
- - Pistons   QUOTE (mfb) they let neal stephenson roam the stre...   Feb 10 2005, 01:46 PM
- - Paul   I'm going to read that as busty and be happier...   Feb 10 2005, 03:43 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   Yeah, Warren Ellis is the man. I have secret drea...   Feb 10 2005, 03:54 PM
- - Demosthenes   That's why DocWagon runs Bastard Farms IMG, ra...   Feb 10 2005, 04:01 PM
- - DrJest   Lots to read, some to comment on QUOTE I found t...   Feb 10 2005, 05:13 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE Absolutely. Come on, guys, we all rag on Bil...   Feb 10 2005, 05:22 PM
- - mfb   QUOTE (DrJest)To me, "furry" is a manga ...   Feb 10 2005, 05:32 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) QUOTE Absolutely. Come on,...   Feb 10 2005, 05:37 PM
- - DrJest   Time to switch to decaff, mate   Feb 10 2005, 05:38 PM
- - Paul   QUOTE (DrJest) You know, until someone defined tha...   Feb 10 2005, 05:38 PM
- - mfb   that's never been a strong theme in SR, though...   Feb 10 2005, 05:38 PM
- - DrJest   Yeah, what's that quote? Something like ...   Feb 10 2005, 05:48 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   On SURGE, I can tell you straight up that the writ...   Feb 10 2005, 05:54 PM
- - Paul   QUOTE ("Demonseed Elite")Paul, are you s...   Feb 10 2005, 07:58 PM
- - hobgoblin   one either mutates with the cultural fads of the t...   Feb 10 2005, 08:17 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   QUOTE Rambled enough now, hopefully this comes som...   Feb 10 2005, 08:18 PM
- - Critias   QUOTE (Birdy) It's still us against the pigs, ...   Feb 10 2005, 08:24 PM
- - hobgoblin   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) QUOTE welcome to the globa...   Feb 10 2005, 08:28 PM
- - Jrayjoker   I think that SR is flexible enough to encompass al...   Feb 10 2005, 09:00 PM
- - Mumbles   My favorite Shadowrun Sourcebooks are all still se...   Feb 10 2005, 10:44 PM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Paul @ Feb 10 2005, 12:58 PM) I mean i...   Feb 10 2005, 11:12 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   Yeah, I personally always liked to see Dunkelzahn ...   Feb 10 2005, 11:28 PM
- - Birdy   QUOTE (Critias) QUOTE (Birdy @ Feb 10 2005, 1...   Feb 10 2005, 11:50 PM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) Yeah, I personally always ...   Feb 10 2005, 11:53 PM
- - Demonseed Elite   I have my own views about that, but it's stuff...   Feb 10 2005, 11:55 PM
- - Synner   QUOTE (Demonseed Elite) But the Dragonheart Trilog...   Feb 11 2005, 12:01 AM
- - DrJest   I have no trouble with Dunkelzahn and Harlequin be...   Feb 11 2005, 12:05 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Synner @ Feb 10 2005, 05:01 PM) QUOTE ...   Feb 11 2005, 12:07 AM
- - mfb   psh. my characters are in this for the money.   Feb 11 2005, 12:07 AM
- - hobgoblin   QUOTE (Mumbles) My favorite Shadowrun Sourcebooks ...   Feb 11 2005, 02:32 AM
- - Cynic project   I don't think people are evil, so much as they...   Feb 11 2005, 02:44 AM
- - Paul   Evil, like all morality is subjective. It requires...   Feb 11 2005, 03:22 AM
- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (DrJest)Will the PC's ever be global her...   Feb 11 2005, 04:14 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Paul) Evil, like all morality is subjective...   Feb 11 2005, 04:33 AM
- - Paul   Skinner? That's with out the benefit of Google...   Feb 11 2005, 06:39 AM
- - Paul   QUOTE (Patrick Goodman) QUOTE (DrJest)Will the PC...   Feb 11 2005, 06:45 AM
- - Crimsondude 2.0   QUOTE (Paul @ Feb 10 2005, 11:39 PM) Skinner?...   Feb 11 2005, 07:24 AM
- - Cynic project   QUOTE (Paul) Skinner? That's with out the bene...   Feb 11 2005, 08:36 AM
- - DrJest   QUOTE I will now take a moment to pimp an article ...   Feb 11 2005, 11:15 AM
- - MYST1C   QUOTE (hobgoblin)awakenings is one of my favs to. ...   Feb 11 2005, 12:11 PM
- - Pistons   QUOTE (M¥$T1C) Why not do it as was done with...   Feb 11 2005, 01:31 PM
- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (Paul @ Feb 11 2005, 12:45 AM) QUOTE (P...   Feb 11 2005, 02:55 PM
- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (DrJest) QUOTE I will now take a moment to p...   Feb 11 2005, 02:58 PM
- - Jrayjoker   I sense some sarcasm in that last post.   Feb 11 2005, 03:16 PM
- - Patrick Goodman   QUOTE (Jrayjoker) I sense some sarcasm in that las...   Feb 11 2005, 03:20 PM
- - Req   QUOTE (Paul) Evil, like all morality is subjective...   Feb 11 2005, 06:14 PM
- - mfb   no way. using Horrors to define SR's evil make...   Feb 11 2005, 06:30 PM
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