 The Indestructable Leopard III, Call in the big guns... |
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 Feb 14 2005, 12:04 AM
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#251
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722  |
The question that I still wonder about is - what are any group of average runners doing taking one of these on? They were asked to steal it? Yeh, right...
Johnson: Your mission is to steal a Leopard III tank Dr. Jest: HAHAHAHAHA no. |
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Feb 14 2005, 12:11 AM
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#252
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
why not? it'd be like Operation: Dumbo Drop, except with more horrible death.
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Feb 14 2005, 03:51 AM
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#253
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
helicopters kill tanks real good. As i recall one the main roles of most attach choppers is kill them tanks, and then kill them some more. |
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Feb 14 2005, 04:00 AM
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#254
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
The problem is getting a helicopter that can overcome 40 points of armor, although I know I've seen t-birds packing a rail gun, so I'm pretty sure some of the larger helicopters could too. Or naval class missiles.
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Feb 14 2005, 04:42 AM
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#255
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Big lasers..I ave to say that big lasers are the way to go.
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Feb 14 2005, 04:44 AM
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#256
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
lasers in SR aren't AV weapons.
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Feb 14 2005, 04:45 AM
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#257
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 12-December 04 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 6,881 |
Bug spirits. They always manage to appear on me, I'm sure one could appear in the tank.
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Feb 14 2005, 04:47 AM
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#258
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
But they should be,MFB.They should be.
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Feb 14 2005, 04:56 AM
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#259
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Why? Even today high-powered lasers are considered a bad antitank weapon because the vaporized material provides a shield for several seconds after the initial hit. The only apparent way to improve this is to either jack the power up so high as to provoke an explosive expansion or to widen the beam, both horribly inefficient.
~J |
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Feb 14 2005, 04:57 AM
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#260
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 12-December 04 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 6,881 |
Easy to counter, Pulse laser. |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:00 AM
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#261
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
So you wait several seconds to do the exact same thing and still without great penetration, or if you do jack up the power high enough you now have massive, complex, and delicate machinery that needs to be in LOS of a tank. This helps how?
~J |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:11 AM
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#262
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 12-December 04 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 6,881 |
Heat moves air quite fast in the upwards direction. You could stagger your pulse between two spots and every time one shot hit it would suck the now vaporized metal up the shaft of hot raising air. Every shot would be clear and it wouldn't take long to do. |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:13 AM
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#263
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
No, heat moves in all directions at varying rates depending on the substance in that direction. Hot things tend to be less dense than cool things, but even gaseous metal doesn't have a tendency to not be dense.
~J |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:16 AM
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#264
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Look I saw a laser that shot a hole in inch of some type of steel. They are making laser with ranges in the hundreds of miles that made to destroy missiles in mid-flight.
Tink of what they will do in 60 years? |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:17 AM
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#265
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
I tink they will have lasers that do about 18M non-vehicular damage. |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:18 AM
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#266
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
they probably still won't be blowing through ceramic armor.
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Feb 14 2005, 05:26 AM
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#267
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 12-December 04 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 6,881 |
I'm thinking that the laser would create a shaft of heat from the light, but the more I think about it the more I remember that the laser would just heat the object it's hitting. So, this is my new idea. You summon up a wind elemental and get a few guys with lasers.... Or not. |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:30 AM
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#268
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It would heat the air in its path as well, in proportion to the amount of light-absorbing particles in the air, but that'd just sap its terminal effectiveness even more.
Wind elemental idea is actually pretty good. Getting a gale-force wind across the area for the entire duration ought to allow you to burn pretty much uninterrupted, as far as I can tell. ~J |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:33 AM
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#269
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 12-December 04 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 6,881 |
I'm thinking at that point it be much more affective to use the magic to bury it, then bury the turret (or encase the turret so it can't fire) then work on cracking into the tank to kill the people inside. |
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Feb 14 2005, 05:37 AM
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#270
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Oh, certainly. I still don't think it'd be AV (that whole ceramic thing again), but it'd vastly increase the effectiveness against targets as far as I can tell.
~J |
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Feb 14 2005, 06:04 AM
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#271
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Target Group: Members Posts: 82 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,544 |
Do what they did in the article. Use terrain to channel them into ambush. |
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Feb 14 2005, 08:58 AM
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#272
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Now you're making a LOT of assumptions for that to work. Mainly that you have terrain available to do that, which you may not, and that even if you do have it terrain limited that you can even come close to approaching to plant a charge without getting mowed down, which is unlikely. Among other problems. |
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Feb 14 2005, 09:02 AM
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#273
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712 |
"Captain, they put tings in our ears!" |
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Feb 14 2005, 10:48 AM
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#274
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Unfortunately the Attack Helicopter chassis only has a Body of 5, so the biggest guns it can carry in a turret are autocannons and vehicle lasers. Which is pretty reasonable, all things considered. Depending on your GM's mood, I suppose you could mount nearly weapon in SR on a Fixed Hardpoint as long as you've got enough Load -- this way you could mount, say, 2 Ares Vaporizer Heavy Railguns on an Attack Helo. Most GMs will just slap you silly, though. Shadowrun sadly lacks mid-size anti-armor missiles. You can do 20D (AV) with a 3kg anti-tank missile (Great Dragon ATGM), but to do any more damage to an armored ground target you need a 750kg SS-N-49 Sirocco anti-ship missile, with a whopping damage code of 80D + 18 boxes Over-Damage (AV). For some strange reason the 200kg M-GM Outlaw Block III anti-vehicle missiles still only do 20D (AV), providing no edge in penetration over an ATGM a fraction of their size. Still, you can mount several Siroccos on an Attack Helo chassis -- at least 4, perhaps 6 or more. And the good thing about using anti-ship missiles is that you only need to hit within 40-50 meters of the Leo3 and stand a really good chance of a kill... |
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Feb 14 2005, 11:09 PM
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#275
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 586 Joined: 22-November 02 From: Gordonsville, Virginia, U.S.A. (or C.A.S.) Member No.: 3,630 |
I know that you folks will probably burn me at the stake in effigy for suggesting this, but would a high-tech Kamikaze-style attack work?
I was thinking along the lines of a large rotodrone packed with a shaped charge of C-12. Failing that, how about immobilizing the beastie instead of destroying it? Couldn't a mage use an indirect magical attack against it? Say forming a big sheet of ice under it or something? (I realize that the ice sheet would have to be VERY big, not to mention rather thick [in order to support the tank's weight], but would it work?) I saw a World War II documentary about the Battle of the Bulge (Belgium, December 1944--January 1945) in which an infantryman and a Sherman tank were side-by-side on an icy road. The Sherman was slowly negotiating the right side of the road, and the soldier was near the left shoulder--apparently, he was trying to give the tank as much room as he could under the circumstances. To make a long story short, the soldier lost his footing, and slid across the road, only coming to a stop when he slammed bodily into the left side of the Sherman. Upon impact, the tank lost traction and itself began sliding sideways until it ended up in a ditch on the right side of the road. Think about it: that's a 33-ton vehicle (approximately: Shermans weighed between 33 and 42 tons, depending upon the model) with a full-tracked chassis, and the road was so icy that a 150-pound (approximately) man carrying roughly 70 pounds of gear hit it hard enough to make it slide sideways. Here's a link: Medium Tank M4 Sherman P.S.: Crimson Jack--the quote was: "Oh, sir, it was Khan! We picked him up on Ceti Alpha Five....He put... creatures... into our bodies...to control our minds. He made us...say lies...do things....He thought he controlled us, but he did not. The Captain was strong." Also: Kirk was an ADMIRAL in that film. One of the major flaws in that film was the bit when Khan said: "....I never forget a face...Mister CHEKHOV." Look it up here if you want to: The Internet Movie Database STAR TREK: THE WRATH OF KHAN was based upon the STAR TREK: THE ORIGINAL SERIES first-season episode "Space Seed" (Episode 22; original air date February 22, 1967). The character of "Ensign Pavel Chekhov" didn't join the cast until the second season, which began on September 15, 1967, with Episode 30, "Amok Time". --Foreigner |
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