 Character Critique, Three variations on a shifter |
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 Feb 22 2005, 06:39 PM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086  |
You're right about the pigeonholing being restrictive-- but the general point seems to be that the vast majority of them WILL tend to be animal-oriented. Some may prefer to be human, but that should be the exception, rather than the rule |
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Feb 22 2005, 06:43 PM
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#77
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Right, I'm not denying there will be exceptions. In fact the shifter that lives in civilization at all is probably the exception already.
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Feb 22 2005, 06:44 PM
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#78
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
Wha, what? Where is this specified? How'd I miss something like that...
See below:
I feel Striper, and the books featuring her in general, were pretty messed-up. |
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Feb 22 2005, 06:49 PM
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#79
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
It's in the critters book man! Download it! It even specifically tells how each type of shifter resembles it's representative animal while in human form.
The same can be said for any shadowrunner, really. No argument there. :)
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Feb 22 2005, 07:05 PM
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#80
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Shadowrun Companion uses human form exclusively when talking about shapeshifters. If shapeshifters could change to resemble any metahuman form, metahuman would have been used as in the ghoul section which precedes it. |
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Feb 22 2005, 07:10 PM
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#81
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
I suppose this raises the question of why a shapeshifter would become a shadowrunner in the first place - or even, for that matter, live amongst humans at all.
Just a few thoughts... I could see the predators wanting to test themselves against "the supreme predator" - Man. Any shifter might find themselves outcast from their animal type by virtue of their shifter nature (animals in the wild can be pretty damned uncompromising on anything "different"). A more educated shifter might be looking for a way to get money in order to pay for something - land purchase for their pack/herd/whatever, eco-activist goals, etc. |
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Feb 22 2005, 08:08 PM
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#82
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Or they can have a "Pinocchio complex". "I want to be a REAL boy..." I guess it really would be determined by the shapeshifter's socialization.
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Feb 22 2005, 09:28 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
Well, actually I was more interested in bitching about the author, but you've got a point, too. As for the shapeshifter resemblance thing, is it mentioned in the SR Companion? I don't remember seeing it. You'd think that would be an important detail for people planning on making a shifter character. |
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Feb 22 2005, 09:37 PM
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#84
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
p35, next to last paragraph of the Companion mentions the following:
The section on Shapeshifters as PCs also references Critters as the source, which contains a lot more information about the "native" characteristics of shapeshifter human forms. So presumably, you have to have Critters (which is free!) to be prepared in thinking about this process of character generation. |
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Feb 22 2005, 09:53 PM
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#85
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
Geez... RTFM, Garland, RTFM... :dead:
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Feb 22 2005, 11:31 PM
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#86
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Because the NPC shapeshifters will kick his hoop? Heck even the normal critter... |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:05 AM
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#87
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
It's certainly true that a starting shapeshifter character is right up alongside Physads for one-trick-pony-ness, if not more so; as for the legendary Shifter Physad, well, let's just say you'd need a compassionate GM your first few runs out :) It's the requirement to spend attribute points separately on the animal form that's the real crippler; at 2 pts per point of attribute, you seem (from playing around on the NSRCG a little earlier) to wind up with mediocre stats in one or the other unless you pretty much sacrifice any reasonable skill base. Shifter Physads, definitely... what was the word? Pooched? Interesting that they can't use adept powers in animal form. That seems overly harsh to me, but I suppose it was intended for balance; the dual nature, regeneration and stat bonuses are good, although the stat bonuses in particular are instantly stymied by the need to spend attribute points between two forms, and dual nature can be a curse as often as a blessing. |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:09 AM
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#88
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
As regarding shapeshifter culture, as shifters are magical abberations, they have no inherent cohesive 'shifter culture because of their rarity. If a colony of seal shifters got together, or there was an enclave of foxes in a secluded mountain somewhere, that'd be different. Whatever 'culture' a shifter has is what he picks up from being amongst humans.
I think that no provision was made for 'shifters having a human form aside from sapien sapien for balance and complexity reasons. Using priority, I'm not sure how you could work out having essentially 2 racial priorities, and with points, the cost would be pretty prohibitive. That and 'shifter bonuses, on top of racial bonuses... Hammering out workable rules for that would have been a headache. Finally, RE: Kinky tiger sex, since the description says that they are 'animals which can take human form' they're geneticly incompatible. They might want to have the people sex, they might enjoy the people sex, but they're not going to be having babies from it (I believe Striper found a male tiger 'shifter, and then had a tiger 'shifter kid(kit?), but yeah, pretty much everything invovling her was messed up). Ain't thread drift grand? |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:16 AM
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#89
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Incidentally, and this one's a doozy, here's something to remember. The book gives you plenty of stats for playng the shifters, including flaws, but here's one they allude to that may not register at first because it's in the fluff text rather than the hard stats text. Most countries - including the UCAS, where the majority of games are set - do not consider shapeshifters (meta)human. No Human Rights. No rights at all under law. No ownership of property - no ownership of anything, for that matter. You can legitimately be gunned down at any time by anyone and no murder charges can be preferred.
Think on that, if you will. |
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Feb 23 2005, 01:01 AM
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#90
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
As opposed to the SINless being gunned down and the charges that were filed were dropped? Not that those charges will help you once you are dead, you know. |
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Feb 23 2005, 01:37 AM
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#91
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I was about to say "Sounds exactly like being SINless, only you don't get even human interest sympathy from the press."
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Feb 23 2005, 01:44 AM
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#92
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
No, but the SINless are at least people (this is just how I run things), and I play up the 'probabtionary citizen aspect. Being a SINless runner doesn't get you thrown up against a wall and shot in the head if you've fragged up, but if you've been doing really bad things it is easier to 'vanish' you. If during a fight with runners, an LS team guns down a bunch a bystanders (whether intentionally or accidently) they're going to be in just as much trouble whether those people had a SIN or not (especially if the media gets footage of it...)
Whereas if that 'shifter gets caught, and revealed, he's boned. Corps can whisk him off to their labs, or LS could simply throw the dangerous animal into the incinerator without the least fear of reprecussion, because it was a dangerous animal (with 'regular' humans, they have to at least be a little subtle when doing stuff like that). |
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Feb 23 2005, 01:52 AM
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#93
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Those situations are not analogous, though. You'd have to give the example of the Shifter being an innocent bystander being shot (after which, he'd probably Regenerate, and then run away, leaving LS to wipe out said shadowrunner team and the rest of the bystanders).
While it is true that a SINless human probably will have a better time of it if they play their cards right, LS will just as easily pop the runner's cap if the runner is caught, Shifter or not. When they shoot the runner in the head and see that the wounds heal up before their very eyes, then LS starts to call for backup, and this is independent of the fact that they are a Shifter... it's because the runner just did something that falls under "Magical drek we aren't trained to shovel". I think the average LSer will think less of the SINless shifter-human form who has a unibrow and perhaps some unusual hair patterns than the SINless Troll that's twice his size and looks like an obvious threat. |
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Feb 23 2005, 04:36 AM
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#94
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
I haven't read any of the Novels with Striper, yes she did get her own book eventually, still trying to hunt that one down. And my GM used her as an NPC.
Which I find totally unrealistic in canon.
So would you follow it, or alter it?
Exercising free will? |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:03 AM
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#95
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Unrealistic how? It can't happen in real life? And to think it was only a month since people around the world gathered to mark the liberation of Auschwitz. Shapeshifters aren't human, they are animals. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:28 AM
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#96
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 28-January 05 From: Phoenix, Arizona Member No.: 7,030 |
We have different opinions on the matter, let's not hate each other because of it.
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Feb 23 2005, 06:05 AM
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#97
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690 |
To try and put this into my perspective, if the 'shifter is walking down the street, and a LS HTR team suddenly rappels in, shooting him in the head until he doesn't walk no more, that's going to cause some of the same problems that gunning down the SINless would. Or perhaps more appropriately, it would elicit the same reastion as if I was walking with my pitbull, and Lonestar suddenly pulled up and shot it.
Just because someone is SINless doesn't mean they're deprived of all rights. Some ork gets nicked robbing a Stuffer Shack, he's going to jail, not the firing squad, even if he's a borderline psycho with poor impulse control. If violence is traced back to a 'shifter though, it's a different story. I can insist that my dog is a perfect angel, but if Lonestar has him fingered for mauling a couple of postmen they're going to put him down. If they think he's dangerous, then neither the dog nor the 'shifter is entitled to special rights of due process. YMMV |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:09 AM
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#98
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
The notion of "free will" and "rights" are abstract concepts that should be alien to a shapeshifter. A shifter will come from a mindset that reflects their animal nature, and as such, human concepts such as justice, money, property, liberty, etc. would possibly be fascinating to a shifter, but definitely apart from their mindset. Shifters would be familiar with certain concepts such as family, community, survival, sex, and power, but would think of them in terms of differing contexts. Terms like "jail" and "law enforcement" would be completely alien, and would have to be explained to the shifter, and even then, they would not completely understand the utility of it (Why wouldn't you just kill something that threatened you? Or run away when it is too powerful?).
It would be hard to offer sentient rights to creatures when they have no use or no comprehension for those rights. |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:16 AM
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#99
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Acually she has two, not including her appearance in Into The Shadows. |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:17 AM
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#100
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Right, I agree with you. However in my mind, the whole meat of the issue is being identified as a shifter, who by their very existence mimic humanity. The average Lone Star beat cop will not recognize a shifter apart from the average human... they may look a little stranger than most, but certainly not as strange as your average ork or troll. To the average cop, the shifter looks like a funny-looking human, whereas a troll looks like a potential problem. You'd have to be magically active and astrally perceiving to know what the shifter really is. For all social interactions between the Shifter and metahumans, the Shifter will be human... a human who maybe acts a little weird, who looks a little weird, but isn't anything out of the ordinary until you shoot him or he changes. He would be treated just like any other SINless human... until he was identified as a shifter. Again, one would argue that the whole due process thing is a human paradigm... we believe in rights, in liberty, in justice... shifters probably do not. To treat them as deserving/not deserving of human rights is a human thought process... they probably could care less. |
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