Your presentation cuaght my eye, but I haven't finsihed going through them all yet with a fine tooth comb. Immediately noticeable were your flaws for this character. In the first to version they seem cobbled together for extra points-first question I'd ask is how does Combat Monster and friendly face happen in the same guy? And how'd he "get" gremlins?

I'll come back after I have looked these over more.

Well, for one, you can't take Unarmed(Fists).

This might have been a houserule that I've been using so long I've simply forgotten it isn't canon, but what's wrong with unarmed/fists? It applies to weapons that use unarmed combat as their base, such as Hardliner or Shock gloves.

Why would Friendly Face and Combat Monster be incompatible? He's a friendly guy, but when he gets in a fight, and gets his blood up, he goes for the kill and has a hard time disengaging from that mind frame.

Gremlins is easy. He doesn't like technology, and technology doesn't like him right back.

I did lean a little heavily on the flaws and edges, but I found myself really needing some of those extra points.

'Shifters are dual natured, they automatically have Astral Perception on ALL THE TIME, and can't turn it off. It's a simple action to focus on the astral and notice things, but it's always there, you don't need to buy it with an adept power or SURGE edge/flaw. (SRcomp, pg 36), also Shifters have Essence 8 regardless of magical ability (which starts at 6 in CC)

Also, I didn't add it up, but watch the money expenditure, Shifters only get 5,000 at CC, you don't want to have all these wiz gadgets only to have no place to store them.

How in Hades did they get Etiquette of 5 or 6? They know how to fit into every group? Seems like trying to get around that whole bestial nature and roleplaying the animals unfamiliarity with mankind.

I didn't really want to bog the post down with a whole background story, but essentially he's a shifter that has found human culture exquisitely fascinating and learned as much as it can about it(slightly modeled off a cat I knew who was very adept at charming people). Just because he's mastered the art of social niceties and interaction doesn't mean that his animal nature has been completly surpressed, but when he's in his element, he's charming and engaging enough that most of his behavorial idiosuncracies will be overlooked. When he's out of his element or under stress, that's going to start falling apart pretty quick.

That sounds more like a high charisma than etiquette. I see much less problem with the attribute than the skill.

An Etiquette of 5 means he would fit into all aspects of society better than most people.

Cat shamen wouldent do a squatter lifestyle. At all. Period.

Personally, I'd go with a Leopard Shaman Shapeshifter.

The Lifestyle's ok. The den may be sparsely furnished but it'll be clean at least.

The Edges and Flaws look ok as well.

The thing I'm having trouble figuring out is your theme. Is this guy some kind of "cat" burglar? Then perhaps you might really want to consider Leopard instead, the Cha(Etiquette) + Leopard totem bonus for spirits (concealment) or Kinesics is better IMO.

Honestly, I think I had some sort of 'Hobbes' style idea going through my subconcious as far as personality went. With his focus on social skills, none of his incarnations are that good with combat, so I thought sneaking B&E would be a good skillset to focus on (I felt trying to make a full on 'face' shapeshifter would just be too strange), but I didn't want to be so crass as to call him a cat burglar.

That might be part of the problem I've had with the character. Aside from being able to get along very well with people, I really haven't nailed down what else he's supposed to do.

Now Hobbes I could see having a high etiquette, but Hobbes is a stuffed toy tiger. He is a long way from a shapeshifter in my mind. I am trying to imagine a situation that would produce a Hobbes from a tiger and having difficulty getting around that bestial nature thing. I think I would make you take an exceptional background edge to explain it (akin to GURPS.)

Do you plan on staying in human formal all the time? cause you sure as heck cheezed out point distribution with your animal attributes in 2 of three (some would say 3 of 3) cases.

Yeah, the conversion to Martial Arts, and then they show the example of actually removing the Bite specialization.

Anyway, specializing in an unarmed skill is always cheap. Because you could just specialize in like, kicks, and just say like "Oh, I'm kicking him". Its not like using a weapon, because you're probably always going to have your legs, so its unfair.

But the conversion favours people with a martial art specialisation.

It is not unfair to specialise in kicking or biting, it is just the way the game is played. If you do not use it, you re just not doing the smart thing.

In general yeah, a character specializing in unarmed/fists would always try to be punching (especially if he's wearing hardliner or shock gloves). The problem with that kind of specialization is that you're in trouble if you're in a situation where you can't use that part of your body effectively (you'r hands are tied together, or your leg has been chained to a radiator, what have you). It's not an overwhelming drawback, but it is something I have had happen to characters.

Well if your hands are tied or you're chained to a radiator, you're pretty much screwed anyway, aren't you?

I was trying to come up with a slightly better example than "well, if his hands are full of something he really doesn't feel like putting down..."

See? Its just a cheap way of getting an extra die. Like specializing in swimming (breaststroke), and just saying your always doing the breaststroke, or whatever. I don't know much about swimming, so that might be wrong.

Eh... I'd allow unarmed(bite) personally, but slap a person using the specialization with a -1 to reach.

Unarmed (Fists) = Unarmed (Boxing) = Unarmed (Martial Arts Style)

Those aren't CC rules. SR3 p. 86, Unarmed combat; specialisations Subduing Combat, Martial Arts Technique or by body part (fists, head butts, kick). CC went on to offer a conversion break to anyone who took a martial arts specialisation when converting to CC styles.

Well, I can see all your points, but I still say its cheap.

I kinda thought the point of specializing was that is was cheap.

With the exception of Clubs (used for just about all makeshift melee weapons), I really don't see many Combat Skills that provide meaningful advantage to a character for avoiding Specializations.

Well, a heavy weapons specialist isn't usually going to be as good as a non specialized version, due to the large variety of heavy weapons, I would say.

JaronK

I suppose that there are less instances when you can be concievably deprived of using your specialized fists, instead of say, a Predator, but the GMs I've played under have allowed it so... whatever that's worth.

Normally, I would consider unarmed combat specialization to be less cheesy than most specializations, because there are two kinds of unarmed attacks you can normally make - a normal melee attack, or subduing combat. If you specialize in a type of melee attack, that means you get to roll less dice for subduing combat.

Unfortunately, though, they list subduing combat as a specialization, but don't describe how it works until Cannon Companion. So the distinction between melee and subduing combat will only come up for GMs who have Cannon Companion, but don't use the optional martial art rules.

Specializing in subduing combat is alright, but I maintain that specializing in your fists is cheese.

If they're going to specialize in fists, let them specialize in fists. It only makes sense with the rest of the entire specialization system. You specialize pistols in, say Ares Predator, you specialize UC in punching. Just like you can be caught without a Predator around, you can be put in a situation where you just can't punch. Most of the time, though, you're gonna have that Predator at your side, and most of the time you're going to be able to smack people about with your hands.

Think of it this way, the guy with just UC is fairly adept in all aread, can punch, kick and headbutt when the situation arises with equal facility. A guy who's specialized in punching can throw a really good shot, put his weight into it, follow through, he's got it down, but when he kicks he's off balance, his aim's not so good and the follow through is lousy compared to what he can do with his hands. God forbid this guy gets into a wrestling match, where he'll have no room to punch out, or even worse, when two goons hold his arms so a third can beat on him, he won't be able to kick his way out of it as well as the UC generalist.

Same goes for every other specialization there is. A Pistols generalist can pick up any pistol-style gun and start shooting things with no problems. A Predator specialist has been training for long amounts of time with just that one type of gun, and he knows it and its quirks inside out and backwards, which way it pulls, the force of its recoil, the feel of the grip, the action of the slide, everything. He picks up another gun and while the basics of aim and shoot still apply, he's lost that familiarity, he's in a situation where he's expecting (consciously or subconsciously) the weapon to pull one way with so much force, but it goes another with a different amount of force, and it throws him off his game just enough to loose those dice.

Specializations make total sense in this way, and are in no way cheese.

Okay then, we'll have a guy who specializes in kicks. So in your example, he's doing fine. If theres ever a point in combat where you don't have access to your legs, you're probably screwed no matter what.

Or then why specialize in fists? Just specialize in "Karate" and say you're always doing karate. (This would be pre-CC rules)

IMHO Shapeshifters are really fun, but they are also walking timebombs. Something to keep in mind, thier ability to look completely human relies on thier willpower which get's tested every time a high emotion of passion, anger, or fear, might dominate thier mind. Unfortunately when a shapeshifter shifts voluntarily from thier Human form to thier Animal for it's not just physical, it's Psychological as well, where Passion, Anger, and Fear Rule.
Unlike the Myth, a Shapeshifter doesn't only shift on the Full Moon, they can shift at anytime they please, but on the Full Moon, they have no choice but to go full form eventually.

What game are you playing?

Fortunately, there is nothing to say that shapeshifters MUST obey their animal instincts or that their animal side take over when they shift. There is no canon game mechanic to support that.

Other people have beat me to the punch, but yeah, a resounding 'huh?' for Weredigo's post. That's the first I've heard of anything about a full moon.

I see playing a shifter as being something more than an animal, but less than a man. Because of it's enhanced intellectual capacity, only under rare circumstances will a shifter go completly wild, while at the same time, it will usually have a much more immediate, instinctual, and primal response than a normal human would (I.E an easier provocation to violence, etc).

FYI, I played around with the Adept's stats some more. I lowered Ettiqutte and Negotiations, and took two ranks for each in Improved Ability. I then used the extra points to redo the attribute scores.

You think Regeneration is boring? Wow.

Nah, Whitewolf's got Regeneration as well, canon just presents them too much as "just animals" or "just infected" and doesn't go into thier different cultures.

Dungeons & Darknessrun!