 Ally spirit, No I am not going to have sex with it |
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 Feb 18 2005, 11:50 AM
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#1
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587  |
I was just thinking about an ally spirit for a obeyifa (MITS p 20).
There where 2 things that where throwing me. First what would be a logical form, I would probably expect to use inhabiting but what should I put it in. Secondly sorcery is a free power with the spirit starting with sorcery skill equal to yours and a random spell from your selection. How will this interact with an obeyifa’s (or any conjurer’s) ally spirit. Edward |
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Feb 18 2005, 01:21 PM
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#2
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
2) Unless you learn Sorcery, the ally will only have the potential for having Sorcery. You could later learn spells for the ally, but it will not start out with one. This has been discussed in the past, concerning Aspected Conjurers.
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Feb 18 2005, 02:53 PM
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#3
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Hmm. Here's an interesting thought. Say a shamanist or an elementalist gets an ally. Can the ally nearn spells that their master can't ever learn, like say a Fire elementalist's ally spirit learning Heal?
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Feb 18 2005, 03:51 PM
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#4
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Id guess youd have to teach it casting, or have someone else do it. Interesting idea...
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Feb 18 2005, 04:26 PM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
So you think it would start with no spells and sorcery 0 but I could later use the ritual of change (the only way to improve a ally spirit) to teach it the sorcery skill and some spells that I can not cast. Could be dammed useful that could, karma intensive but very useful.
What shape do you think suites the obeyifa, I was thinking the homunculus rout as all there other spirits must be bound in a focus but what shape makes sense, the homunculus normally can move. Edward |
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Feb 22 2005, 10:44 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
MITS p 110: The [ally] spirit may only have skills that its master possesses, and the ally's Skill Rating can never exceed the ratings of its master's skills...The spirit's master may later increase the spirit's skills up to a maximum equal to the creator's skill by paying Karma and performing a ritual of change.
No sorcery for the ally of a conjuror. No Conjuration either, for that matter. |
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Feb 22 2005, 11:48 PM
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#7
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
People can learn Sorcery skill without being able to cast spells. So, yes the ally can learn and use sorcery.
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Feb 22 2005, 11:57 PM
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#8
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Inhabiting is a waste of time in most cases. not only limits the forms, but limits the usefulness. Really, I only suggest Inhabiting on guard Allys.
I'd make a human form, an animal form, and something unique to the character (such as a Dragon Slayer's having a shield form). |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:42 AM
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#9
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Three forms right off the bat? Wow. Now there's a question for you: how much Karma do you usually spend on your ally right off the bat? I can't see anyone saving up the 50+ Karma all at once like they show in the book. Anyone else with me in that? Also, what's up with that (IMO) stupid rule that knowledge skills cost as much to raise for allies as active skills? It is endlessly annoying to realize that it takes as much Karma to teach my ally how to cook as it does to take apart a computer. Anyone house rule this to have allies start with up to (Int * Force, max Int *5) knowledge skills taken from the master and make raising knowledge skills cheaper (1/2 cost), or is there something broken about it that I'm not seeing? |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:48 AM
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#10
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Well, firstly, Edward was complaining about having too much karma with this GM, so I didn't feel I was pushing him too far. Personally, I've never made an ally as a player charatcer in 3rd edition, only as a GM - ah, the flexability - and then it's all about flavor. |
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Feb 23 2005, 01:43 AM
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#11
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I like to give them 3-5 forms in addition to their true form. 1 karma per form seems cheap to me.
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Feb 23 2005, 04:52 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
That's technically true. However, there are some criteria. First, you must be awakened. Easy enough, right? Second, the active magical skills that a given aspected magician can or cannot perform are listed in their individual descriptions. Not as true for the new skills presented in MITS, but that's FASA for you--it's true for Conjuring and Sorcery, which are the matters at hand here. Third, SR3 page 160 states "Conjurers can use the Conjuring Skill, but cannot use Sorcery." I suppose you could interpret that as being able to learn the skill but not use it, but I think that's a rather blatant disregard of intent. Sorcery is, after all, supposed to be the knowledge of how to shape mana into spells. Without being able to do it, you're working off just theory, which would be the Sorcery Background Knowledge Skill. Conjurers are the only magically active "class" that can't use sorcery in some form. Adepts can learn it (because they can use it), but they can only use it for astral combat. (Go figure) |
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Feb 23 2005, 04:59 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Yeah, same here. I've been kind of tempted to experiment more with mechanized forms, since they're within the realm of possibility--like Aracos turning into a motorcycle in Kenson's novels--but it's hard make balanced rulings with unlimited potential with things like that. Like in the other ally thread, one person suggested giving an ally a fairlight excalibur form--the decker's happy he gets the best (stock) deck in the game for free. I suppose you'd have to reload the programs every time though. It would be horribly complex, too. So, rather than open a can of worms, I usally go with one or two metahuman forms, an animal form, and something interesting. Like Elven Knight in Full Battle Armor, Human in plainclothes, Wolf, and claymore (for example). First form is free, so it's only +3 karma--which is a pittance compared to the total cost. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:10 AM
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#14
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I've already given my thoughts on mechanical forms, but don't feel like searching for them. I have no problems with it, but the functionality is based on the ally's attributes and is not imbued with any actual electrical or even biological functionality. It can look like whatever, but it still works like an ally. For instance, a motorcycle form would still be limited to the ally's quickness (though, as a generous person, I use the x6 multiplier for "running"), and though it may sound like a viking, there's nothing under the hood (so to speak) - load is limited by Strength and so on.
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Feb 23 2005, 09:43 AM
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#15
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Somebody said that adepts can learn sorcery for astral combat, I don’t know if that is true (or even makes since) but if it is could not a conjurer do the same thing so his ally can then learn sorcery (a very expensive way to do it).
As to the use of inhabiting it looses a lot of flexibility for no real gain. The thing is it makes since for the obeyifa given that all there summoning is into objects. Edward |
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Feb 23 2005, 10:16 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
I said so, it's on SR3 pg 168: "Adepts do not use magical skills to perform magic...(though they can use sorcery in astral combat; see p 174)" Where it later specifies that they can actually only use the astral combat specialization. I don't think it makes sense either, really. SR3 pg 160 explicitly states conjurers can't use sorcery at all, but I think I'd allow them to use the astral combat specialization, same as adepts--seems to be a more on the fly channel mana through your astral form thing. By that same token though, it's still useless for spellcasting, which is another specialization altogether. |
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Feb 23 2005, 10:24 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
"Ally spirit, No I am not going to have sex with it" So you are not,not going to have sex with it?
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Feb 23 2005, 11:43 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 494 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Amazonia Member No.: 7,102 |
actually, using 'no' at the beginning of a sentence, as an interjection is proper. There should have, however, been a comma after 'No'. |
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Feb 24 2005, 05:48 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
This has been your grammar lesson for today. There will be a pop quiz at the end of this thread, please have a sharpened #2 pencil ready.
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Feb 24 2005, 03:16 PM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
On reading this I tried to add said comma but it won’t let me edit the title. Edward |
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Feb 24 2005, 04:04 PM
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#21
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Near as I can tell, no forum allows title editing. Bit of a pain, innit? |
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Feb 24 2005, 06:52 PM
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#22
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Will there be bubbles? I like bubbles... :D |
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Feb 25 2005, 03:55 AM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
PHPBB does. Although, it is a bit of a pain becames of some very strange bugs. On the subject of mechanical forms, a spirit that looks like some sort of bleeding edge prototype drone would be cool. While it wouldn't have the same functionality as the real thing it would be just as useful as any other spirit and it would confuse mundanes. It is much better for a mundane witness to report being attacked by a strange rigger with a prototype antoroform than it is for the witness to report being attacked by a strange magician with an ally spirit. Give it some combat skills and practical weapons. Guns, katanas, grenades; What it lacks in sorcery it can make up in firepower. Hmmm..... katanas.... Can an Ally bond a weapon focus? |
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Feb 25 2005, 07:10 PM
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#24
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,944 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
What about using a drone as an homunculus?
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Feb 25 2005, 08:17 PM
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#25
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Outch. There seems to be a number of questions that always arise whenever ally spirits are on topic. On mechanized forms, I´m with Kanada 10. The drone homunculus has been covered before, and the answer then, I believe was that the spirit would only be able to maneuver the drones limbs (animate it), so any function other than that would have to be controled by a set of buttons on the drones chest or something. Plus it would have to have the skills needed.
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