Bursts and Full-Autofire, heretic thoughts and house rule Options

[Critias]

Staying SoTA's a bitch.

[Johnson]

I have found that SOTA is used quite a bit, its a pitty its the SOTA 63 and 64 is the only 2 Tech books I don't have...

[Endgame50]

I highly recommend going out and getting them if and when your budget allows. In addition to some fun toys to play with, they're great for adding some flavor to your game--they go over the current trends and fads for each year.

[Johnson]

It have had SOTA 63 on order for the last 4 months and I placed the order SOTA 64 in January 05 I am still waiting for 3 games shops to get me the order. I am driving 120KM on saturday to a city to see if they don't have it there. I am missing out here.

[Crusher Bob]

Yay for SR PDFs

[Johnson]

PDF's. Yes I agree but I rather like the feel of books. Easy and quicker referance. But yes PDF's are nice.

[Link]

mfb (if the shadowland rules you quoted are yours)

I like the rules, I'd considered using the RC modifier in a similar manner but never really liked the open test autofire that some people here use.

Why did you put a +2 TN penalty on autofire? Game balance?

To save me working it out, is the result much the same as the standard rules (in terms of damage etc.)?

[BitBasher]

[mfb]

partly for game balance, partly for realism. for game balance, i don't think it works very well to allow someone to hit with (say) 6 rounds because they got one success at TN 4. for realism... well, i just don't think it works very well to allow someone to hit with 6 rounds because they got one success at TN 4.

the results are... different. if you look at autofire as a whole, it becomes more deadly, mainly because people use it more often, and hit more often when they use it. single, short bursts actually lose some effectiveness, because of the higher TN (most people using auotmatic weapons can scrounge up at least RC 3); if you use these, you might consider keeping the old rules if the shooter fires only 3 rounds. we don't, because when someone on SL flips to autofire, they almost never fire only 3 rounds, making it not worth the added complexity.

[Smiley]

Yeah, but with only one success, it's that much easier to dodge, there's no staging, and there's a better chance of soaking. I don't think all 6 rounds hit at all. Acutally, this may be another topic...

[mfb]

that one success gives your target +2 TN to dodge, +6 power, and +2 damage levels. that's (guestimated) about the same difficulty to dodge, and much more difficulty in soaking.

[Smiley]

But all the target needs is 1 six and he avoids it completely. I'd rather be facing down 1 success from a full auto than 4 or more on single shot or burst. Cuz remember, that full auto is the shooter's full action. SHould you successfully dodge, they don't get a second chance that pass.

[mfb]

no, he needs two sixes. you have to beat the attacker's successes to fully dodge a ranged attack, not just meet them. and, really, if a shooter is likely to get only 1 success at TN 6, he's not likely to get 4+ successes at TN 4.

[Link]

After rereading the SL rules it occurred to me that the only real difference is;

1. That the uncompensated rounds in a burst have a chance of hitting but this detracts from the overall number of successes.

2. The dodge TN is also harder because the total number of rounds are considered.

These 2 advantages are countered by the +2 TN mod.

Is this a fair assessment?

(note that we tend to fire a number of rounds up to the RC limit which keeps the TN at the base value - otherwise we go for suppression.)

I tend to think one could adjust the dodge TN normally ie. rounds actually on target, reduce or eliminate the TN mod. and I'd have a minimalist house rule that encourages spraying some lead while not making autofire overly lethal.

Of course the SL rules are probably tested so forgive my impertinence.

[Rolemodel]

[BitBasher]

[Rolemodel]

Of course. High armor plays it's part, naturally.

But on one hand, we have high armor reducing the TN to 2, and on the other, armor reducing the TN from something high, to something still difficult to peg down.

But with low body, that TN to 2 still has bite between either forcing you to expend your combat pool dice, or being stacked with offensive successes - Point in fact, high body equates potential for high wound reduction.

At that point, you'll want all the dice you can throw, and then some. Karma pool utilization. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

So - If armor saves lives, then high body saves combat pool.

-RM

[Dawnshadow]

[BitBasher]

I didn't assume anything means naked, I was just stating the fact that a 15 body doesn't put the fear of god into anyone in my games unless it's backed up by a solid character or NPC. The 15 body alone doesn't cause fear.

[mfb]

[Dawnshadow]

[Arethusa]

Dawn, you're nitpicking, and repeatedly beating your chest with full pretention and declaring that yes, indeed, your dastardly oppenent is— gasp!— strawmanning is not helping. It's unnecessary and it's puerile.

[Dawnshadow]

[Arethusa]

It's not a valid form of debate when you're dissecting a casual turn of phrase used for implicit emphasis and treating it as a formal argument— and, in effect, creating little straw men yourself.

[hahnsoo]

*hands out some NERPS* Everyone feel better now?