 Corporations, cyberzombies..., and the all important bottom line |
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 Feb 22 2005, 09:32 AM
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#26
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Resident Legionnaire  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550  |
Our group hasn't run into 4 over the past few evers. ;)
Hell, I've only used one in a run once. There's not much a cyberzombie can do that a good drone network, or a decent team with good tactics can do just as good, or even better. Except, of course, scare the crap outta a team of shadowrunners. :cyber: |
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Feb 22 2005, 10:22 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
Its been awhile so my memory may fail me, but these guys are dual natured right. Which means that, unlike a drone, one of these could wade into a magically oriented situation and come out on top. Which makes it the potential equivalent of both a drone team and an initiation group; rolled up in a single entity that has no hidden agendas of its own. That makes it attractive on a different level than simply being a super sam. Building a whole fleet of them is not logical, but 1 or 2 in operation at the highest levels is not that far fetched. Especically in the paranoid and dystopic setting of shadowrun. Corportations exist to make money, but theyre not the most effecient things in the world. And at the very top most of them are beholden to the whims of individuals with their own non-logical/rational thoughts and worries. Seeing one of these show up in a campaign is an event in and of itself, and it shouldnt happen in every campaign. But its not unheard of or totally out of line either; which is why its one of the whispered tales in the backs of the dark bars runners hang out in, an urban legend in its own right.
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Feb 22 2005, 10:52 AM
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#28
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Whatever astral threat that the drone may not be able to handle will not be able to hurt it either. The only astral advantage that a cyberzombie may have is that it can detect an astral intruder while a drone cannot.
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Feb 22 2005, 12:44 PM
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#29
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
And they do this job very well. 8) |
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Feb 22 2005, 04:23 PM
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#30
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
All for the price of many steel lynxes. Just buy a few Lynxes and Ares Guardians and a cheap anthro to follow them around. You can afford a whole stable of drones for that cost. "Cool" =! "Practical".
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Feb 22 2005, 04:48 PM
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#31
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Steel Lynxes are mostly useless. If you're in a fixed area, run some tracks and use the Sentinel P; if you need to be on the move, rotodrones beat the pants off of the Lynxes.
~J |
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Feb 22 2005, 04:50 PM
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#32
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I was talking about offense not defense, but hey. ;) |
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Feb 22 2005, 04:56 PM
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#33
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's where the rotodrones come in. Just getting the Lynxes where you need them to be without getting the HTR teams called in is an adventure in and of itself. A rotodrone you can fly into place with comparative ease, and it's still more versatile thereafter.
~J |
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Feb 22 2005, 05:07 PM
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#34
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Actually I'd never want ot use a rotodrone indoors, I just think that's a disaster waiting to happen...
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Feb 22 2005, 05:11 PM
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#35
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
As long as you have clearance for the rotors, it's less risky than the Lynx falling down the stairs.
That being said, the only time I've used rotodrones indoors was not exactly by choice. Not much you can do when a teammate is being mauled by modified dogs. ~J |
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Feb 23 2005, 02:40 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,785 |
That's actually how the only cyberzombie to make an appearance in one of my games was killed. The CZ was a street sam who was sicked on the players before (beaten badly, with a lot of his obvious 'ware removed by Katana). The group that hired him collected him and made a few bargains with some of the Free Spirits they were aware of to 'zombie him. He was pretty weak--more of a "we can do this" experiment by a small cabal (which was more concerned with ritual conjuring and slapping allies in high tech constructs). But he was still a challenge for the entire party (~4 60 karma characters--first time players mostly, with non-human Karma Pools, so their characters weren't uber). Anyway, eventually the team was trapped in an elevator, with the 'zombie on top in the elevator shaft. Then the mage remembered he could astrally project (once again, newer players), did so, and kicked the cyberzombie's ass. |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:14 AM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 344 Joined: 5-January 05 From: Wherever this piece of meat rests. Member No.: 6,937 |
Hmm, Cyber Zombies. I've never really found much use for them in my campaign. I like the idea well enough, but if I were to invest that much time creating one it would have to be something much better than a stock goon. I've built up a rep in my campaign for a cybered troll NPC with a few spell anchors on him so much that people think he's the toughest son of a gun this side of Lord Torgo. I always find it amusing, as only one person has had to face him. He's no cyber zombie, but my players fear him as if he were, even though it's be reputation only. I guess as a gamemaster the main reason I don't use cyber zombies is because they ARE zombies. It seems to me a stretch to give them any real motivation for doing anything other than what they are told to do. And since they seem so uber, most GM's usually keep them as either a "tough" opponent or as a plot device (from my experience anyway.)
Who would use them? Anyone that could afford to. A Megacorporation of AAA size would have monumental waste of money, just like any government. An unscrupulous stock holder or Exec (Like the late Sr. Oscuro from AZT) could certainly divert enough money with either influence or plain old financial shenanegins to create a cyberzombie shock squad / bodyguard unit / special ops team. I mean, as a GM, I think a couple of them running around would be a hell of a lot more frightening then just one. Hell, it would be great if there was a rumor that your PC's nemesis group of company men were cyber zombies, whether they were or not. :nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen: |
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Feb 23 2005, 05:20 AM
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#38
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
<Begin sales pitch Q&A>
And after the first few rounds bounce of our arthreforms vehicular armor you will likely find brown stains in the pants of your newly delivered corpses. A photovoltaic option is available and some of the best graphic artists in the business have worked on the design to maximize psychological effect. Also the ruthenium option has proven quite intimidating.
This is quite true, a CZ in astral combat is asking for trouble. Without special training they are all but blind, also there limited astral movement means they are an easy target for a projecting magician with spells. I am aware of there much vaunted magical resistance but it is far from immunity.
much is maid of the adaptability of the steel lynx and it is a valuable asset however out arthroform is even more versatile. The lynx can negotiate stares but slowly our arthreform heavy security robots can cover any type of terrain including stares ladders or even a moderately difficult cliff face with the speed you would expect from a metahuman security officer. If you want non arthreform drones as well we do offer a heavily modified CSD Dalmatian for close quarters security work. Our modifications make it easily a mach for the far more expensive guardian. Its vectored thrust system grants it far safer operation than your rotor craft witch will rarely survive a glancing impact with a wall. It is true that the modified Dalmatian engine has a tendency to over heat but the replacements are easily and cheaply obtained. Our customizations do not have the problem of the engine exploding. <End sales pitch Q&A> Edward |
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Feb 23 2005, 06:45 AM
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#39
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
A drone does not usually have double digit Body (with Trauma Dampener and medikits) that can stage down Deadly damage to nothing, even if he is unarmoured. Say that a Runner Calls a Shot to Bypass Armour to the drone, the power is halved and Level staged down, but can a Body 4 stage down a Serious to nothing? Mr Zombie can.
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Feb 23 2005, 06:49 AM
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#40
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
If I was in charge of some corp's cybertech division, I would search out Troll metavariants (Cyclops, Giant) for that very reason =)
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Feb 23 2005, 06:53 AM
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#41
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I guess it is time to break out the rail guns...
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Feb 23 2005, 07:07 AM
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#42
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I think the "call a shot to bypass armor on an armored vehicle" loophole is a serious argument crutch. No GM in his right mind would allow that, especially since it's not even in the books, just in the FAQ.
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Feb 23 2005, 07:25 AM
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#43
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
FAQ ain't canon, but IIRC that particular crime against reason got errataed into the book.
~J |
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Feb 23 2005, 07:35 AM
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#44
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
It's not in the errata, I just checked. Thank God. |
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Feb 23 2005, 07:39 AM
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#45
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Phew.
~J |
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Feb 23 2005, 09:01 AM
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#46
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Although it is true that a arthreform of this size will be severely damaged by and attack that can penetrate its armour the armour we use is impenetrable to any man portable weapon with the possible exception of the modified auto canons some trolls have started to use And then only if loading specialised ante-vehicular ammunition. Combined with a robotic pilot program that allows it to dodge incoming fire with greater proficiency than the fastest metahumans and contingency mauver controllers that ensure the robot will operate at full efficiency even if it has a significant amount of damage we are confidant that our product has superior battlefield lifespan than even the most heavily armoured cyber zombie. <end sales pitch> I subscribe to the idea that in order to make a called hot to bypass armor you need to make a perception check to locate a weakness in the armor. Against a metahuman not wearing a helmet this is easy, the head is unarmored you can shoot that. Against a vehicle with obvious armor I would set the target at about 4+armor value. If I allowed it at all Edward |
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Feb 23 2005, 11:11 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 17-June 03 From: A safehouse about to be compromised by ninjas Member No.: 4,754 |
The astral avoidance of drones is potentially misleading. Consider than a spirit could manifest, attack, and unmanifest; yes not all in one action but as a tactic. There are situations where such a thing could/would seriously hamper a drone. Against a CZ the astral target doesnt have this option, there is no where to hide. They can leave at astral speeds, but running away also neutralizes their threat. The CZ will usually far outlast a drone as well.
But any game-situation-mechanics situation aside, there are *people* involved here. Say you are the CEO of a Megacorp. You want to make money. But you also want to sleep without fearing for your life. And while it may not be econmoical to produce a legion of CZs, sprining a little nuyen for some R&D into *one* to say, patrol the summer house while its not out "recovering its design costs" isnt so bad. And itll really take the worry off knowing that it wont lose loyalty or stop or run away or anything else like the guards over at the accounting center did last week. Theres psychological reasoning on both ends; but again: runner urban legend, not rent-a-cop replacement. |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:33 PM
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#48
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Your view is not supported by the FAQ, but it is your game. |
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Feb 23 2005, 12:48 PM
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#49
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The FAQ doesn't specifically mention bypassing Vehicle or Drone armor. But it doesn't preclude it either.
I solve the whole Called Shot problem in my games by only allowing them for effect, or to hit specific things like tires. I don't even allow staging up the damage level any more, because I figure that this is the effect of a good, or well-aimed shot. |
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Feb 23 2005, 03:58 PM
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#50
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
It just doesn’t feal right that bypassing the armour should have the same difficulty wether the target is wearing a vest with plates or full body mill speck. Or if it is an APC with armour 3 or a tank with armour 30. At the same time removing called shots altogether means the SL2 provides no benefit. Edward |
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