 The Middle East |
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 Feb 24 2005, 04:21 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 28-October 03 From: End of Earth 2mi. Home 4mi Member No.: 5,764  |
Just happened to be looking at a world map for SR and this struck me as odd. With how much we hear about the citizens of the middle east shooting at each other in the present I'd have thought that the map for that area should be more of a mess then it is. After all I like to think of the USA and Germany as fairly stable nations yet they splintered upon the return of magic to the world. So why has none of theis happened to the Middle East? Have the people at FanPro not gotten there yet or did the rise in mana levels actually manage to make one part of the globe more stable?
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Feb 24 2005, 04:29 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
You will see more on the Middle East soon. 8)
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Feb 24 2005, 04:49 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 202 Joined: 15-September 04 From: East Providence, RI Member No.: 6,664 |
I can't even imagine the Middle East in 60+ odd years...scary.
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Feb 24 2005, 08:08 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 24-September 03 From: The DeeCee Sprawl Member No.: 5,648 |
A lot of that will depend on how things shake out of current developments in the region. If a lot of things go right, it's not inconceivable that in 60 years the Middle East is much more stable than we can currently imagine. A lot of things that are going on are at least encouraging (new Palestinian leadership, what's occurring in Lebanon, elections in Iraq and Afghanistan). But there's a long way to go, so things could easily slide backwards... I imagine the good folks at FanPro will find plenty of interesting things to do to the region regardless... :) |
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Feb 24 2005, 08:10 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043 |
I'm having a hard time imagining the Awakening stabilizing anything, really.
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Feb 24 2005, 08:17 PM
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#6
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the middle east did, according to SoE, stablize somewhat. or, well. they gathered together under a single banner and beat the living crap out of most of europe. that's sorta like stabilization. once the back of the Great Jihad was broken, though, it looks like they went back to fighting amongst themselves, if the information surrounding what's-his-name-the-probable-master-shedim is correct.
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Feb 24 2005, 08:17 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
Plus, lets face it. Stable regions are boring, from a Shadowrun perspective. I mean, would you really buy a book about a region where crap wasn't about to hit the fan any time soon?
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Feb 24 2005, 08:26 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
As I recall, in Shadowrun, Libya and Israel go at it with hammer and tongs. Or chemical and nuclear weapons anyway.... ...In the year 2004. So, whatever's going to happen in Shadowrun's Middle East is going to be different than happens in our Middle East. But go figure. Some of the very critical US Supreme Court decisions (Shiawase, Seretech) should've happened in 1999 and 2001. Shadowrun is already a very alternate history. |
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Feb 24 2005, 08:28 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 24-September 03 From: The DeeCee Sprawl Member No.: 5,648 |
And just like 1683, the Turks...I mean Great Jihad was defeated at Vienna... Actually, a lot of Europe in the 2060s looks like Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries (from a grand perspective)...that historical undercurrent makes SoE for me. |
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Feb 24 2005, 11:36 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: 18-August 03 From: North VA Member No.: 5,519 |
Well, it'll all get upset when Ibn Eisa sends his zombie followers to EAT YOUR BRAINS!
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Feb 25 2005, 12:46 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 202 Joined: 15-September 04 From: East Providence, RI Member No.: 6,664 |
I'm no expert on the Shadowrun timeline but didn't they just obliterate each other and then the corps started having Desert Wars in the region?
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Feb 25 2005, 12:49 AM
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#12
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Only in Libya.
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Feb 25 2005, 12:51 AM
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#13
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
Desert Wars are in N. Africa. A lot of stabilization in the Middle East seems to have come from Lofwyr and S-K pulling the strings to get better access to oil.
On that note, I wonder just how much oil is left in the Middle East in 60 years - its been a while since I've heard a good doomsday estimate on about when the world's oil reserves will run dry... |
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Feb 25 2005, 03:08 AM
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#14
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Whilst the writers for the rest of the world seem to have gone on an apocolypse binge, the Middle East seems to be the one region that's done the exact opposite and come together. Except for the second Iran/Iraq war and Turkey balkanising, they've hung together pretty well. Arabia hoovered up half a dozen or so countries, combined with SK influence, the most wildcard nation getting nuked out of existance, Iran taking a body blow, the Alliance for Allah and now the New Islamic Jihad, it's unification city over there.
The Middle East and Russia are two of the main reasons I'm waiting for the upcoming Shadows of Asia release. :) |
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Feb 25 2005, 03:11 AM
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#15
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I was thinking the Middle East looked ready for a "civil war" between the NIJ and the Islamic Unity Movement. Along with Aden's activities the region's more a powder keg than a bastion of stability.
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Feb 25 2005, 03:33 AM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 24-September 03 From: The DeeCee Sprawl Member No.: 5,648 |
Depending on how exactly one carves up the region, there's room for all kinds of instability. You have two flavors of Islam (Sunni and Shia), at least three ethnicities (Arab, Turkic, Persian, plus however you choose to define the various Central Asian peoples, though they tend to be Turkic or Persian historically) and the possibility of plentiful natural resources (again, depending on how they approach the occurances of the previous 60 years), sounds like a powder keg waiting to go off and plenty of biz for runners.
I can see plenty of internecine conflict between the Islamic organizations, especially after the assassination of Mullah Sayid Jazrir and the collapse of the Great Jihad, plus the possibility of rising upstart organizations challenging for power in the region... And this is only thinking politically, as I imagine there will be some Awakened goodies in there too. |
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Feb 26 2005, 10:53 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
In the SR timeline didnt a third majhor faction of Ismal form sometime after the awakening?
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Feb 26 2005, 11:04 PM
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#18
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
There is another forms of Islam that is so weakly related it was just funny. Jihad 5 was a Germen gang of this faction... IIRC, the tag line is that paradise will come to Earth at the apocalypse (and the gang intends on making that happen as soon as possible).
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Feb 26 2005, 11:19 PM
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#19
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
Message to Authors :
We need to see the Ismailis and the Hashishin in Shadowrun. |
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Feb 26 2005, 11:32 PM
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#20
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Well, I have a really hard time imagining the Middle East in large parts as a stable envionment, though it'd also be bound to rival Europe in terms of balcanisation and different settings every other kilometer.
1. It is a damn mess today, already. Not only in Iraq, but also in Turkey ("Kurdistan"), Iran, Palestine, Yemen ... 2. If there is anything Arabs are realy bad at, it is agreeing with one another and not backstabbing each other every five minutes. Realy. Arab leaders are supposedly the most antisocial, paranoid and dishonest people on the planet, surpassing late-1990s internet company CEOs by quite a margin. 3. Not two, but four different flavors of Islam are present in the region - Shiite, Sunni, Ismaelite, and Sufi (especially the latter should really be empowered by the awakening). Not to even mention the different schools within Sunni silam (though I'd expect the ME to be largely Wahhabite in SR - it is dark future after all). And not three bit about a gazillion of different tribes, ethnicities, and old grudges that would be very hard to unify under one leader. It's not like Arabas haven't tried that a couple of times the last century. 4. There also is a very, very substancial difference in wealth between the oil nations (especially the UAE and Saudi) and the likes of Syria and Jordan, whcih certainly adds to the tension. Plus, the de-islamisation of Isdtambul/Constantinopole surely pisses off all those holier-than-thou Wahhabites, and terrorist tactics should not have lost any of their appeal, on the countrary actually. The tensions between realpolitik, fiery idealism and fierbrand calls for hatred and holy war, together with above emntioned fractioning, shgould make for a very instable envorionment. think of Iraq all over the place, and of Islamist troops instead of Americans trying to keep the whole mess from boiling over. 5. With the awakening, Aden destroying Tehran (and possibly bringing down the Islamic Republic in the aftermath), the return of magic and the subsequent rise in mullahs and uninintiated muslims able to work "wonders", people in the ME are bound to have become even more religious than they are now. It's easy to drink a Raki (or what passes as wine in Lebanon) every once in a while if Allah never makes his presence felt, but it's not quite so easy if you freindly neighbourhood mukllah can shoot flames of vengeance and make angels appear and stuff, is it? 6. There's always someone who doesn't like their freindly neighbourhood dictator. They're everrywhere! Hence, there will most likely be an all-pervasive state secret service, with whom everyone will have to arrange themselves. Since the secret service people are notoriously bribable (at least today, they are, and that's not gonna change much in the dark future that is SR), corps should have no problem with them, and runners not on a budget shouldn't either ... unless either messes with the local potentate's interests. Then, they'll feel like hell has broken loose on them. And depending on whom they manage to piss off, it might well actually do. At least, I always imagined the "toxic" variant of monotheist shamans (shamen?) to be that - hell-worshippers. All in all, it would be an interesting field of opperation fro runners, though they'd be set to face much resentment (being Westerners, usually metahumans, cybered, non-muslims, and generally outsiders to whetever community they're in) and other hurdles they'd maybe not be used to. In other words, really deserving of a sourcebook of it's own. :D |
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Feb 27 2005, 12:15 AM
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#21
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Well the Kurds already have their own area/country thanks to their benefactor Aden, even if they aren't recognised by anyone. Yemen's part of Arabia now, Tukey split, Iran's still a theocracy but keeping their heads down thanks to Tehran and Palestine hasn't been mentioned yet. But it'll be covered in Shadows of Asia so looking forward to that. :)
Good thing you didn't get too stereotypical and paint the whole region with a wide a brush. ;) I think a more reasonable way would be to say that power mad Presindents for life, kings and military dictators don't share so well. And having someone to gang up on is a good unifying force, witness the Alliance for Allah. That and a possible Second Coming is pretty nifty as well.
Yeah, I can definately see them becoming big with adepts and other magical aspects as well.
Well Arabia is definately going to be Wahabbi thanks to a Sa'aud's arse warming the Caliphal throne. As for the tribes and stuff, I dunno, I just don't see it all that much personally. And see the IUM and Second Coming comment for a good unifying factor.
Think you're overstating things a bit. When one in a hundred people are magically active - in my old college that would have translated to 20 or more people, and we were a mid to smallish place - it takes away a lot of the mythos. And with magic widely know about and masses of data on it, a god giver gift maybe but not considered a 'wonder' I would have thought. Plus, why would Aden laying the smack-down make people more religious? I would have though it had a counter effect. Old geezer cleric says metahumans and dragons are evil and should be destroyed, dragon doesn't like that and instead torches old clerics gaffe and surrounding city with it. Cause and effect - don't nark off the eight-hundred pound gorilla. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Feb 27 2005, 06:28 AM
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#22
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Guests |
I wonder if there's any enclave/country/region/whatever carved out by the Awakened. It's not like it's unheard of, even if some people don't particularly like it (I think it's actually rather logical, but that's me).
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Feb 27 2005, 07:07 AM
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#23
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i hear there's an island nation in Indonesia that welcomes the Awakened with open jaws. er, arms.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Feb 27 2005, 07:39 AM
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#24
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Guests |
I was thinking more like it's equivalent in one of the shield islands off the Strait of Hormuz between Oman and Iran.
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Feb 27 2005, 01:08 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
What are the 10,000 Daggers? Chopped liver? |
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