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> aura reading/assensing, over using it?
Sokei
post Feb 25 2005, 01:18 AM
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Ok here is the situation in my current game, i have a player who will assense nearly anyone they have to work with. Runners/johnsons/ the strange bum outside the bar etc etc. Now is it possible to detect astral assensing or is there a limit to its usefulness? At the moment she does it to the point where she has an extensive knowledge of most of the people they have had contact with in the past or currently interact with.

Has anyone had this happen? I don't consider it to be a game breaking annoyance, im just curious.
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Tanka
post Feb 25 2005, 01:25 AM
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Near as I can tell, no way to notice it save for a Watcher Spirit poking them and saying "HEY YOU'RE BEING ASSENSED BY [that guy]!"

And even then, it probably wouldn't work.

You're a Shadowrunner. You're supposed to be paranoid and try to find out everything about everybody you do business with.
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James McMurray
post Feb 25 2005, 01:26 AM
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I wish my group would assense more. Its an invaluable information gathering tool.

While doing it to everyone up to and including the bums oin the street might be a bit much, it might also be the smart thing to do.For instance, if you have reason to suspect you might be under surveillance, finding out that the bum next to you has cyber ears, a head transceiver, smartgun link, wired reflexes, and a GPS rig might just save your ass.
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toturi
post Feb 25 2005, 01:29 AM
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Assensing and Aura Reading does not give you the whole story about that person, but I would agree that it is a good tactic and it is working the way it should.
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Tanka
post Feb 25 2005, 01:31 AM
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QUOTE (James McMurray)
I wish my group would assense more. Its an invaluable information gathering tool.

While doing it to everyone up to and including the bums oin the street might be a bit much, it might also be the smart thing to do.For instance, if you have reason to suspect you might be under surveillance, finding out that the bum next to you has cyber ears, a head transceiver, smartgun link, wired reflexes, and a GPS rig might just save your ass.

Well, you won't find that out about him, but you will find out that his Essence is rather low for just being a bum on the street. And how he is reacting to you (read: his emotions).

Those can be very useful tools to have.
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James McMurray
post Feb 25 2005, 01:40 AM
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You won't know exactly what he has, but some things should be readily discernable just by their location (such as wired reflexes and perhaps a smartgun).
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 01:41 AM
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Of course, magic can defend against it. Masking ,watchers, etc. But it's very hard to spot if they have masking on (the assenser that is), because astral perception is covered by masking.
I use assensing when ever possible. As before, a lot of the time, you need every edge you can get to keep from walking into a bad situation. Want to make it more difficult for the team mage to guess if the Johnson's going to screw them over? Try having the meet in an area with a lot of background count, like areas in the barrens, or a very astrally active club (high emotions, the mage bars, etc). But it's hard to disguise a cybered sam around a mage with good assensing abilities.
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fistandantilus4....
post Feb 25 2005, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE (James McMurray)
You won't know exactly what he has, but some things should be readily discernable just by their location (such as wired reflexes and perhaps a smartgun).

In my game, they have to make a bio tech test to identify it
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Tanka
post Feb 25 2005, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (James McMurray)
You won't know exactly what he has, but some things should be readily discernable just by their location (such as wired reflexes and perhaps a smartgun).

I've always seen Assensing somebody with a lower Essence as having their aura be darker and not quite as clear. That wouldn't tell me where any 'ware is at all.
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Sokei
post Feb 25 2005, 01:52 AM
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I wasnt saying this is a bad tactic, in fact she has received a bonus karma point or two for assensing someone and using that information to formulate plans/ or figure out what was going on one step ahead of the group. I was just wondering what the average DS'er thought of it.
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James McMurray
post Feb 25 2005, 03:25 AM
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QUOTE (tanka)
QUOTE (James McMurray @ Feb 24 2005, 08:40 PM)
You won't know exactly what he has, but some things should be readily discernable just by their location (such as wired reflexes and perhaps a smartgun).

I've always seen Assensing somebody with a lower Essence as having their aura be darker and not quite as clear. That wouldn't tell me where any 'ware is at all.

The rules let you see where their cyberware is. It takes 3 or 4 successes to find the general location, and 5 successes to find the exact location.
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Sokei
post Feb 25 2005, 02:04 PM
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yeah you can see the exact location of the "dark spot" in the aura but not know the nature of it.
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DrJest
post Feb 25 2005, 02:07 PM
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Yeah, a lot of the time you're guessing, but if he's got a dark spot on his hand, long dark lines in his arm and dark blobs where his eyes should be you can make a guess at probably a smartlink, cyberspurs and cybereyes. Of course, you could be wrong, but hey, nobody said this was an exact science ;)
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akarenti
post Feb 25 2005, 02:47 PM
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I think someone who did the Shadowrunning thing for a living could probably recognize common cyberware's effect on the subject's aura enough to identify it. I mean, that would be kind of important in their line of work.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Feb 25 2005, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (Sokei)
Now is it possible to detect astral assensing or is there a limit to its usefulness?

IIRC in MiTS, there is a Intelligence (10) Test to notice someone projecting near you or something like that. Can anyone with a MiTS verify this?

As far as how much information Assensing grants, it's not mind reading, but more of an emotional read. I liken it to the empathetic ability of Deanna Troy from Star Trek:Next Generation. I do know it's different, but similar on some levels.

It's not a Mind Probe, even with max successes you don't get hugely specific information. You don't get to ask "questions" but simply get to "read the surface" of the subject.

Not a game breaker IMO.
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BitBasher
post Feb 25 2005, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (DrJest)
Yeah, a lot of the time you're guessing, but if he's got a dark spot on his hand, long dark lines in his arm and dark blobs where his eyes should be you can make a guess at probably a smartlink, cyberspurs and cybereyes. Of course, you could be wrong, but hey, nobody said this was an exact science ;)

Yeah, but even that degree of information takes 5 sucesses, which needs 10 dice to hit semi-reliably not even accounting for modifiers.
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DragginSPADE
post Feb 25 2005, 06:00 PM
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GrindertheTroll, the Intelligence (10) test is made when an astrally projecting form passes through your aura. You can make to test to feel a chill or similar sensation. Main book, page 173.

BTW, I'm new to posting on these boards. How the heck do you get those quote containers to appear in messages?

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DragginSPADE
post Feb 25 2005, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE (DragginSPADE)
BTW, I'm new to posting on these boards.  How the heck do you get those quote containers to appear in messages?

[QUOTE]

Disregard, I've figured it out.
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GrinderTheTroll
post Feb 25 2005, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (DragginSPADE @ Feb 25 2005, 11:00 AM)
GrindertheTroll, the Intelligence (10) test is made when an astrally projecting form passes through your aura.  You can make to test to feel a chill or similar sensation.  Main book, page 173.

Thanks for the refernce. So would anyone give the target of the Assensing a roll then? I think it would help curb "abusive" Astral Travelers.


QUOTE
BTW, I'm new to posting on these boards.  How the heck do you get those quote containers to appear in messages?

Hit the "quote" button to grab the whole post or you can use BBCode to split up certain parts.

Explore, have fun and welcome to Dumpshock!
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Fortune
post Feb 25 2005, 06:05 PM
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Herald of Verjig...
post Feb 25 2005, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)
Thanks for the refernce. So would anyone give the target of the Assensing a roll then? I think it would help curb "abusive" Astral Travelers.

Only if you allow any PC or NPC a test to tell whether someone is watching them in the physical world. A non-astral species should actually have an easier time recognizing the passive observation of their physical forms than recognizing the passive observation of themeselves from a realm that is completely foreign to them.

So, if a mundane gets a TN of 10 to notice an estral entity occupying the same space they do, make it 14 to see if they are being assensed, and 10 to see if something mundane is watching them. (both TNs 10 for astrally percieving or dual natured characters)
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DrJest
post Feb 25 2005, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE
Yeah, but even that degree of information takes 5 sucesses, which needs 10 dice to hit semi-reliably not even accounting for modifiers.


I haven't got a book on me atm - is assensing an extended action? Or can it be?
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mfb
post Feb 25 2005, 07:54 PM
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i've always played it as such myself. the only thing about assensing that annoys me is that it doesn't help when you're piercing masking. brute force only; no room for finesse.
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DragginSPADE
post Feb 25 2005, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (DrJest)
I haven't got a book on me atm - is assensing an extended action? Or can it be?

Assensing a single aura is a simple action. If you don't get all the info you want, you can continue to do more simple actions to make more rolls, with +2 to the target number each time for the same aura. To do this of course you have to already be astrally perceiving, which takes a simple action itself to shift perceptions.
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Charon
post Feb 25 2005, 08:48 PM
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Assenssing one person is a simple action, tuning on your astral perception is a simple action, so on average you could say a normal mage takes one turn to assense one person. Someone staring intently at me in the metro for about 3 seconds can easily draw my attention. Most people purposefully avoid staring at anyone but their friends when in a public place. People who do stare often do it in order to establish eye contact and engage in a conversation. And those who just stare for no obvious reason... they tend to give you the creep. In some place, staring can be downright dangerous. "Yo, why you staring at my girl, you pervert?"

Many novels and fiction about SR mention that mage look at you weirdly when assenssing, as if they are looking through you.

In game term, some target should get an opportunity to notice that the mage is staring at him with some concentration, depending on the situation. In itself, it doesn't scream "Mage assessing aura!" but it is at least as noticeable as someone staring at you for any other reasons. And the mage would get the standard +2 to TN for any mundane action to disguise their attention with a stealth roll.

But aside from that and the risk involved in being present astrally (reduced if you know masking), it is only common sense to assense as much as you can get away with.

EDIT : Screw with your player a little if he assense too much. I once described a NPC who was known to have reasons to be angry at the mage walking toward him and looking positively furious. 'what do you do'? 'I assense him'. Well, he got a very good look at the emotional state of the NPC as he drew his gun to shoot at him. I had a good laugh about that.
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