 Was i BLIND or what?, About a certain movie.... |
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 Nov 1 2003, 01:42 AM
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#76
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222  |
Right enough. I'd think a revolver would be the last type of weapon to use either caseless or electrically primed ammunition. But hey, 99% of scifi readers will never bother with such things, because it's so much easier to just think "wow, cool". |
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Nov 1 2003, 01:54 AM
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#77
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Because he had no legal grounds. It'd be pretty damn hard to say that something with Elves and magic and corporations owned by Dragons was stolen directly from his works, and (to use the phrasing of Tycho of Penny Arcade referring to a completely different topic) determining creative primacy is an insane ordeal. There is no case. ~J |
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Nov 1 2003, 04:00 AM
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#78
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
Well, that, and even though Gibson is widely considered the father of modern Cyberpunk, he was building on a large body of earlier work from the assorted authors who called themselves the Mirrorshades Group. Work that came out before Neuromancer is now thought of as being cyberpunk, even though Gibson popularized the term (which was introduced in the writing of yet another pre-Gibson sci-fi author...)
I mean, even if Isaac Asimov was alive, he's not about to sue Fox 'cause there's a robot in Futurama... |
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Nov 1 2003, 04:24 AM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 9-October 03 Member No.: 5,702 |
The Asimov point is valid but Gibson was ripped off. Street samurai, monowhips, Intrusion countermeasures called ICE (shadowrun calls 'em IC but it's pronounced ice), heck even the new yen was stolen. SR calls it nuyen, but its the same. If Asimov wrote about a robot designed to bend things and said "bite my shiny metal ass," then your analogy would have been better.
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Nov 1 2003, 04:48 AM
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#80
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Elves, Dwarves, Orks, Immortal Elves with vast conspiracies, dragons, magic... where have I seen these things before?
Still no case. For there to be a case FASA'd've had to have stolen plots, I think. ~J |
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Nov 1 2003, 08:18 AM
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#81
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UCAS Member No.: 1,015 |
No, GitS is definitely set in Japan. For one thing, the manga on which the film was based states this on the first page. For another, the names of all the characters are japanese and Public Peace Section 9 (the unit that the main characters work for) is a government agency. GitS is very information dense. Every time I watch it I pick up on something I hadn't noticed before. As with most anime you need to watch it subbed. (Oh, and since we're talking about books I have to pimp Warhead.) |
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Nov 1 2003, 07:35 PM
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#82
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I know there was a reference somewhere to it being in Hong Kong. Not that that isn't contradicted several places, or that it isn't obviously false, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
~J |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:13 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 9-October 03 Member No.: 5,702 |
My point being, Kage, is that SR is Neuromancer plus all the magical what not. If I steal your car and put new rims on it, I still stole your car. |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:15 PM
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#84
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
But if you steal the design and change it *enough*, you can't get sued.
Besides, half of us would never have heard of cyberpunk if it were not for Shadowrun; he should actually thank it. |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:19 PM
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#85
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
But if I steal your idea and put new rims on it, and then change the drive shaft a little, maybe tweak the brakes and add a little bell on top, it's no longer your idea, it's my idea.
~J |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:25 PM
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#86
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
The only thing similar between Gibsons world and Shadowrun is that:
They both have a computer world. In Neuromancer it's called Cyberspace. In SR it's called the Matrix. They both have evil corporation bent on dominating the world. They both have a type of Cyberware. That's kind of where the similarities end. Neuromancer (and therefore cyberpunk) is set in the 2020's. SR is set in the 2050's +. Cyberpunk is based on the novels written by William Gibson SR is based on the idea that the 4th world is ending and the 5th is about to begin. Neuromancer is Science Fiction set in the conceivable future (in other words it could happen) SR is Science Fantasy set in the remote future (in other words, it ain't ever going to happen). Are there similarities of course. Every writer, artist, and musician builds his or her work on the foundation of all those who came before. Is SR a rip off of William Gibson? Not even close. (Unless Mona Lisa Overdrive had Orcs...) Read the Gibson novels there great, but after reading them you will realize that Shadowrun is completely different. This post has been edited by Shadow: Nov 2 2003, 07:55 PM |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:27 PM
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#87
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Not to mention that if you look long enough, you can find common threads and parallels in almost every literary genre.
-Siege |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:28 PM
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#88
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 9-October 03 Member No.: 5,702 |
Read 'em. No they ain't |
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Nov 1 2003, 10:42 PM
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#89
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Are there enough deliberate similarities to prove a direct parallel? The concept of corporations as villains or uncaring masters is common enough in various stories. It replaces the Sherriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood and the Norman invaders in Ivanhoe. Now I will grant that certain elements have appeared in the game system -- popular toys or gadgets or even aspects of "Cyberpunk" literature that they knew people would be interested in seeing translated for game. Was it deliberate intellectual theft? I don't think so. But if you are developing a product within an established market (or story in genre), there are bound to be some similar themes. -Siege |
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Nov 2 2003, 08:52 AM
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#90
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Target Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,518 |
Am I the only one going "WTF?" here? |
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Nov 2 2003, 08:53 AM
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#91
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes, my internal editor is too hard at work.
Fairly obvious what he meant, though. At least I hope it's what he meant... ~J |
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Nov 2 2003, 07:43 PM
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#92
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Target Group: Members Posts: 43 Joined: 16-October 03 Member No.: 5,724 |
If you leave the keys in the car with a sign on it that says "Take Me" is it still stolen? The central conceit of Cyberpunk is about the effect of high-technology entering into the hands of the masses. That's the common literary thread that inspired the original Mirrorshades boys, and we're living in that world today. As for mono-whips and all that, there was plenty of "stealing" going on back in the day when SRun started out. (The books of John Shirley and Wilhelmina Baird being examples that comes to mind.) But monofilament and all that were based on technological discoveries. They were fair game because they came out of govt. and corporate think tanks, and were adapted to fiction. Finally no one cared because everyone was having too much fun with the genre. Mondo 2000, and Boing Boing were part of the party, and everbody was feeding on the future. |
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Nov 2 2003, 07:55 PM
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#93
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
yeah sorry, I meant "Cyberpunk". Words in my head didn't line up :grinbig: |
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Nov 3 2003, 04:42 AM
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#94
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Singapore Member No.: 4,487 |
Don't forget the sniper he played in Enemy At The Gates opposite Jude Law. And, yeah, Ron Pearlman is an exceptional actor - doesn't get as much recognition because he doesn't have pretty boy looks like Colin Farell. Another underated actor from Aliens: Resurrection is the guy who plays the leader of the crew (SHIT, his name just slipped away from me ... Michael Winton or something like that). He was too kewl as the jailer in The Count of Monte Cristo (the James Caviziel version, not Richard Chamberlain) and as Rochefort in The Three Mustketeers (with Kiefer Sutherland, Charlie Sheen, Oliver Platt, and Chris O'Donnell). He was also okay as the bad guy in The Crow. |
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Nov 3 2003, 04:44 AM
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#95
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Singapore Member No.: 4,487 |
Don't forget the sniper he played in Enemy At The Gates opposite Jude Law. And, yeah, Ron Pearlman is an exceptional actor - doesn't get as much recognition because he doesn't have pretty boy looks like Colin Farell. Another underated actor from Aliens: Resurrection is the guy who plays the leader of the crew (SHIT, his name just slipped away from me ... Michael Winton or something like that). He was too kewl as the jailer in The Count of Monte Cristo (the James Caviziel version, not Richard Chamberlain) and as Rochefort in The Three Mustketeers (with Kiefer Sutherland, Charlie Sheen, Oliver Platt, and Chris O'Donnell). He was also okay as the bad guy in The Crow and Metro (very kewl the way he escaped the police siege!!). |
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Nov 3 2003, 04:53 AM
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#96
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Singapore Member No.: 4,487 |
Sorry for the double-post. Was trying to edit the last one.
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Nov 3 2003, 08:22 AM
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#97
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Guests |
It's Ron Perlman. And IMDb be damned, in the 20 odd times I've watched that movie, I never heard him referred to as Dieter. Just Reinhardt.
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Nov 3 2003, 09:38 AM
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#98
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Singapore Member No.: 4,487 |
Ach, what is a vowel between friends? :grinbig: |
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Nov 3 2003, 02:36 PM
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#99
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
This is totally out of my butt, however...
Whether or not Gibson COULD sue SR is rather irrelevant. From what I've seen, Gibson, like Neil Stephenson and other classic cyberpunk authors, tend to be very supportive of individuals doing good work and not getting squashed by the overdog. This is WHY cyberpunk came up in the first place (and you can see it illustrated in essays some of the authors have written). If Gibson did have a case, I can't imagine him actually taking FASA to court because he's a nice guy who wants to support little companies in doing something cool. (Just an FYI, he wasn't really big on the SR idea itself because of the tolkien parts, but I'd see this as 'I don't support what you say, but I support your right to say it'.) |
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Nov 3 2003, 08:03 PM
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#100
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
just like with free speech, its not there to protect what you like but to protect what you dont like...
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