 Weapon Focus Monowhip, Power of the Attack? |
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 Mar 2 2005, 04:48 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928  |
Sorry I missread something.... Hard to find things when your BBB is in two pieces, with pages falling out. What I should have said is it just does 10S on the astral. I don't believe you should have to soak every attack when you are astrally perceiving against a purely astral target - otherwise any weapon focus would just go through your target like air (while still doing damage). Makes for a really awkward astral combat. If you are astrally percieving, then I'd say you and your focus are dual natured, so you could also (attempt to) ensnare a purely astral target, just as you could if you had a normal whip weapon focus. YMMV |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:49 AM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: 18-August 03 From: North VA Member No.: 5,519 |
If I build a bomb out of oricalcum and enchant it, can I use that as a weapon focus?
How about a nuke? :rotfl: Why am I even here? I should be studying for a test. Nephron anatomy and physiology apparently doesn't have as much allure as positing the insane concept of an oricalcum nuke... |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:41 AM
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#28
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
I agree with this. |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:54 AM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 376 Joined: 14-July 03 Member No.: 4,928 |
*ONLY* if you sit on it until it goes off... otherwise the Weapon Focus Deactivates.... but the bomb still explodes. :shock: Of course, with a reach of 100,000 meters..... it's way our of anyone's price range.:D As the rules say, only *Melee* weapons can be weapon foci. So unless you're a really, really big awakened troll who plans to beat people to death with your bomb or nuke..... it can't be a weapon focus. |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:48 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 384 Joined: 18-August 03 From: North VA Member No.: 5,519 |
Well, yes, but I'm sure the U.C.A.S could find some Troll mage with a cowboy hat.
I mean, talk about a run. "Stop the Troll mage from blowing the nuke weapon focus-he's gotten to thinking somebody is stealing his precious bodily fluids." |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:53 AM
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#31
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
You can't ensnare with a monofilament whip. Also, I always pictured weapon foci cutting through astral targets without any stopping, but thats just how you interpret things.
Literally speaking, if the attacker with a monofilament whip misses the target because the attack was blocked (more melee successes by target than attacker) or lack of successes (without getting any 1's) then there is no soak test. Only if the attacker beats defenders successes, and defender is using full defense and dodges attack, or more 1's than successes is there a whip test tn(6) to see if you need to soak. If that fails, then you soak the damage. Besides which, if you're dual-natured, fighting a purely astral entity, you're screwed already, because at minimum, they can dance around you all the want, leave, come back, hit you again, run off, come back once more, and so on. So, I don't feel bad about making them make a whip(6) test each attack vs a purely astral target to avoid hitting themself. |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:56 AM
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#32
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Reconsidering... I wouldn't, unless the target dodged/more 1's than successes. I realized that weapon foci are dual natured (thats why they can hit astral stuff) and thusly, astral entities would stop them (as things can't exist in the same spot in the astral either).
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Mar 2 2005, 07:45 AM
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#33
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
What do you mean by that? Why would you need to soak anything In normal combat a miss dose not automatically mean you have to resist the damage yourself. Why would it in astral combat. Edward |
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Mar 2 2005, 07:55 AM
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#34
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Edward, there are special rules for a monofilament whip in normal combat, if the target dodges, or more 1's than successes are rolled in the attack test, the attacker must then make a tn(6) whip test. If that fails, the attacker must soak his own whip damage (10S). Since then, I've changed my view, and say if attacking with a weapon focus monofilament whip against a purely astral target, only if the target dodges completely do the rules come into effect. If using the whip in a willpower contest, I'd say you have to make the whip(6) test or get hit by your own whip, since the astral entity wouldn't stop the mundane whip at all.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 2 2005, 08:57 AM
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#35
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Guests |
I still prefer what was going to be my purely original answer before I decided to actually respond to his questions seriously: Punch the player in the face for being a 'tard and wanting a monowhip focus in the first place.
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Mar 2 2005, 09:52 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Any DM tries that and I'm going to charge him for assault and get his ass arrested, doing 8-10.
It's just a game. Damn man. JaronK |
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Mar 2 2005, 11:19 AM
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#37
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
And I still say why. The availability on a monowhip is huge (24/14days, even a twinked out face adept wont call that easy). The availability on a weapon focus one would be higher. Realistically it is going to have to be commissioned or made for self. If he commissions it then the guy making it will know it is going to be hell to enchant. between the high reach (witch dose not increase cost to make but dose increase market price) and the street index he wont need to up the price but being a shroud business man he will explain that it will cost more to use more oricalcum to get it done faster. And then he my well fail at the first attempt to enchant it. Roll the test TN 12+force-units of oricalcum the player thought to pay for. It could take months to get the thing. If he wants to make it himself then he needs to deal with the realities of enchanting. Up to a month with minimal rest and having to use all that oricalcum or almost certainly fail. He needs to buy a shop and it would be unfortunate if a run became available while he was working (I would only do that if he failed and said he started again immediately). And when it’s all over what do we really have, its not actually all that powerfull compared to a combat axe or a polarm weapon focus not considering the increased difficulty to make anyway object resistance being what 5 points higher. Edward |
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Mar 2 2005, 03:52 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Except for having really high power unrelated to strength, being highly concealable, and having exceptional reach, you're right. It's not much better than a pole arm.
I'd just demand to know how they enchanted a monomolecular line. If it's not oricalcum, I would assume they would have to do *something* to the weapon's striking part so it could properly channel one's aura's power--that's the basis of weapon foci needing to be in physical contact with the wielder after all. And if just the handle gets enchanted, then we're back to the really short club again. |
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Mar 2 2005, 04:20 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323 |
Again, you can make a weapon focus sword with all the orchalium in the pommel, with a dikoted steel blade, if you so desire.
So why can't you do the same with a monowhip? Orchalium in the counterweight and the handle, monowire in the whip part. JaronK |
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Mar 2 2005, 11:21 PM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
I'm sure you could, but you would logically (Yeah I know, logic and SR) need to do something to "enchant" the actual cutting surface too. It's not canon, but that's how I'd rule--there's a lot more to enchanting than just finding some oricalcum and attaching it to a weapon. I'd have trouble believing any explanation where the non-sentient handle of a mono whip could figure out where the astral equivalent would be at any time without some sort of enchantment process being done to the actual monowire.
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Mar 2 2005, 11:39 PM
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#41
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
So unless they hold the sword by the blade, they can't use a sword as a weapon focus? Sounds like only clubs can be weapon foci in your game. In my games, I take the availability of the weapon into consideration when they want to get a weapon focus (or any kind of focus.) It is not just the availability 8 for a weapon focus. It could be the availability 2 of the knife or the availability 24 of the mono whip. They need to be able to meet both requirements. I had a player wanting a dikoted katana weapon focus (or two) for his blender adept. He wanted to use standard wepon costs and standard weapon focus cost. I had to ask why any enchanter would charge the same to enchant a dikoted sword (high tech modifiers) as they would for a normal sword? "It's in the rules." :S Who cares, if doesn't make sense? Using normal probabilities, it would either take much longer for the enchanter to make the focus, thereby not being able to make another focus at the same time, or they would have to spend more for things to make the enchantment simpler, like adding orichalcum to the process. So when someone wants something bordering on the ridiculous, they get to pay more for it. |
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Mar 2 2005, 11:34 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 282 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 197 |
You just "do it." It's a magical process; you don't need to touch the line or put any special materials on it. Part of the enchanting process is that the great mojo becomes part of the weapon, every part, which is more difficult because the line is so high tech. If you detatched the line and enchanted the handle as a reach 0 weapon focus, then reattatched the line, you'd have your magical club and mundane line. Otherwise, it works fine.
edit: Dammit, even when my timestamp says I posted first I get beaten to it :eek: |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 2 2005, 11:43 PM
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#43
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Guests |
Because I'm a mean, petty bastard. |
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Mar 2 2005, 11:45 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
Nah, I'd just assume they'd do something to the blade as well--the blade doesn't necessarily have to be in direct contact with the wielder of the focus. It's just a personal bias that I'd rather have things make sense than not--I hope I've been presenting my opinions as just that--my opinions. I'm by no means suggesting everyone else should do it my way.
Anyway, I think your method is probably more balanced than some out there--which is my second concern. I'd make sure to charge for labor time. Gunsmiths charge about 100 nuyen per hour... standard rate is 50 nuyen per hour... how much might an enchanter charge? |
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Mar 2 2005, 11:42 PM
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#45
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Putting the entire item through the enchanting process is what "enchants" the blade. You make it sound like an assembly line where each part gets enchanted and then somewhere down the line it gets assembled. Also you make it sound like if every part doesn't use orichalcum to link it to another part or the magic users hand, the enchanting stops at that point. I hate to comment how silly that seems to me. If you insist on using the fluff text to require orichalcum not only to be incorporated in the weapon, but in each and every part of it consider this process. During enchanting the orichalcum magically takes on a vaporous quality and permeates the focus. It can't be seen at all at that point. It doesn't alter the properties of the item used as a focus. |
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Mar 2 2005, 11:51 PM
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#46
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
The rates are in the back of MitS. They are cheap IMO. |
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Mar 3 2005, 12:01 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496 |
To clarify, I'm not saying oricalcum should be used in every part--it's really optional, as has been noted. I'm just saying it's reasonable to expect every part of the weapon be "treated" somehow as part of the enchantment process. And it's hard to enchant something only a couple molecules across--possible, I'm sure. But not easy. If you want to use the vaporeous oricalcum solution, by all means.
It's not an assembly line, but at the same time, just enchanting the handle of a weapon seems like a job half done. Do the entire weapon, or not at all. Too bad about the cheap rates--I suppose it prevents magical PCs from getting backrupted, but given their comparative rarity and the pain in the hoop required to create a focus, you'd think their services would go at a premium. |
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Mar 3 2005, 12:44 AM
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#48
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Which is where the higher TNs come into play when Enchanting highly technical objects.
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Mar 3 2005, 12:55 AM
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#49
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
According to SR3 weapon foci deliver the normal weapon damage => A monowhip weapon focus will do its normal 10S.
As for being able to cretae one: Enchant it at its OR of 10 ... If you succeed (either by meeting a high overall TN or by pumping lots of orichalcum into the enchanting process *it's never really said that all used materials go into the focus itself, some of the material might just be used up during the process*) feel happy ... Until someone recognizes what you have there, takes you down with a ranged weapon and then sells it for big money ... |
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Mar 3 2005, 03:25 AM
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#50
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
If I may clarify. Making a monowhip into a weapon focus doesn’t grant greater improvement that turning a pole arm into a weapon focus. Remember you can enchant a weapon without using any oricalcum at all or any alchemical radicals. The TN to make a force 1 weapon focus on a virgin telesma stone headed axe is 8. The cutting edge would have mana woven threw it. And you can to this to monofilament, its just harder because it is so far removed from nature. And as JaronK points out we can put the oricalcum and radicals used to make the enchanting easyer in the handle and counterweight.
very true but enchantment dose not require any material to be added. Your taking 28 days to make this thing, that is going to involve more than bolting oricalcum to the object. My description of how to enchant the line would be to stretch it out between 2 objects and create a line of manna that would overlay and bind to the monowire, if I was feeling so inclined I may actually pass a chunk of oricalcum over the line (cutting into the oricalcum) as pat of the binding poses.
in that case I shall ignore your opinion Edward |
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