Why Did Big D Have To Go? - Dumpshock Forums

Why Did Big D Have To Go?, Someone Explain!!!

Everyone's C... Everyone's Chummer View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 12:37 PM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Pretoria, South Africa Member No.: 6,972	Oi, Chummers... I was just paging through Dunklezahn's Will, the annoted version and that along with other source materials have so many different theories... I think my brain is going to run out of my nose and ears respectively... Does anyone out there really know what happened? Fine! I admit the curiosity is eating me from the inside... Please, someone! EXPLAIN! :wobble:

Dog View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 12:33 PM Post #2
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	Read the Dragonheart novels.

Sandoval Smith View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 12:41 PM Post #3
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690	[ Spoiler ] Long story short, this refers to the whole 'Horrors trying to reach our world' metaplot, Big D had a nifty aritifact that would smack them upside the head a time or two, and keep them from trying to get across to our world early. However, something like that takes some damn hefty mojo to operate. Technically, Dunklezahn commited suicide, but his spirit is actually still around. It bonded with a cyber zombie, and is currently out there somewhere on the metaplanes, doing it's part to make life difficult to for horrors.

Everyone's C... Everyone's Chummer View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 01:05 PM Post #4
Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Pretoria, South Africa Member No.: 6,972	Thanks, Smithy... Now I dont have to go read the DragonHeart Novels. So, how the frag did the horrors manage to gain access to our world en-masse?

Tanka View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 01:07 PM Post #5
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715	Well, there's the "when the mana level gets high enough they can come bounding through of their own volition" bit. However, being able to come early is because of the Great Ghost Dance. It created a spike in the mana at certain points, thusly giving them a bit less time to wait for the mana level to get high enough before they can come into our world.

Dog View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 12:59 PM Post #6
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	You don't "have" to read them? That's like "Thanks for the karma, Mr. GM now I don't have to play Shadowrun."

Sandoval Smith View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 01:21 PM Post #7
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,144 Joined: 22-September 04 Member No.: 6,690	They don't have access to our world en masse. They had some nasty planes involvling the mana spike made by the GGD, and some other things to try and sneak over early, but those were defeated by various means. There are hints that a few of the powerful ones are already able to try and reach across and affect things, while minor (supposed) Horros like Wraiths are already in existance.

Crimson Jack

Mar 6 2005, 06:23 PM

Post #8

Running Target

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QUOTE (Dog)

You don't "have" to read them?
That's like "Thanks for the karma, Mr. GM now I don't have to play Shadowrun."

Considering the fact that many of the people on here have groaned over a lot of the novels, and namely this one in particular, I don't think it's out of line to decline reading it and just ask what happened. I have no inclination to read the novels either. There are few that pique my interest, to begin with, and fewer yet that come with recommendation.

Fortune View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 06:43 PM Post #9
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	I like the World, so I enjoyed most of the novels despite some of them having shortcomings.

Moonstone Spider View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 06:50 PM Post #10
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834	So, does anybody have a reasonable explanation for how the GGD could possibly have RAISED the mana level? Logic would dictate that using up magic in a spectacular way would reduce the amount of mana by consuming it and turning it into something else. Lest ye think magic doesn't work that way, remember that Mana can be Exhausted by FAB eating it all so it is a finite source of energy. Yes, I do expect real-life physics to influence my games. I'm stupid that way.

Kagetenshi

Mar 6 2005, 06:44 PM

Post #11

Manus Celer Dei

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QUOTE (Crimson Jack)

Considering the fact that many of the people on here have groaned over a lot of the novels, and namely this one in particular, I don't think it's out of line to decline reading it and just ask what happened. I have no inclination to read the novels either. There are few that pique my interest, to begin with, and fewer yet that come with recommendation.

I think the intimation was that getting the knowledge without reading the novels is like getting Karma without playing Shadowrun; namely, that you're missing the enjoyable part. This is up for debate, but I don't think you were being chastised.

~J

Crimson Jack View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 06:56 PM Post #12
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,129 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 4,712	I read it more like the way the music snobbery bit goes down in High Fidelity. Vhatever.

Ancient History

Mar 6 2005, 07:07 PM

Post #13

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)

So, does anybody have a reasonable explanation for how the GGD could possibly have RAISED the mana level?

The Great Ghost Dance didn't raise the mana level of the world (as far as is known, there's a couple of theories); but as the most potent magical ritual (involving hundreds of participants and dozens of deaths, possibly on a powerful mana site) yet to have occurred, the site where the Great Ghost Dance was enacted is (or at least, was) the most powerful site on the planet, with a mana level far in excess of normal.

QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)

Logic would dictate that using up magic in a spectacular way would reduce the amount of mana by consuming it and turning it into something else. Lest ye think magic doesn't work that way, remember that Mana can be Exhausted by FAB eating it all so it is a finite source of energy.

You're logic is a bit linear. Mana isn't coal, to be consumed and turned into heat energy, ash, and gases. The energy of astral space (not to mention the metaplanes) is (apparently) effectively infinite. Typical acts of magic don't "drain" astral space, but unusual, powerful, and repeated magical or emotional acts can have an impact on the local astral landscape, cuasing weird phenomenon.

For example, the Strain III latches onto background count: higher levels of mana that have developed in an area, like Chicago, which has seen a lot of magical activity. The Strain III drains mana to to fuel it's own growth; it does so and creates commensurate "low mana" area...which only lasts temporairily as the normal flow of mana builds the background count back up to what it was previously.

QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)

Yes, I do expect real-life physics to influence my games. I'm stupid that way.

Nothing wrong with that. The old Physics axiom that energy is neither created or destroyed still holds true. It's jsut a bit more complicated...and like in real-life physics, no one really knows what the Hell is going on. :P

hermit View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 07:18 PM Post #14
The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121	Well, Shadowrun's novels ... sighs The first few novels were fun, and especially Nigel Findley's can be recommended (the Secrets of Power triology too, though it already has some parts that are a bit too epic for the whole cyberpunk feel). The series has more high points - the early Marc Gascoigne novels are decent, The Changeling is excellent - best SR novel written, ever, in my opinion, and even Nyx Smith's early striper novels are fun, though the shifter is a bit overestimated there. But with (and after) the dragonheart triology, which was WAY uber, lost all the cyberpunk feel, and introduced Supers-like characters, which I at least really don't appreciate, it was ... well, it changed for the worse. Generally speaking, Shadowrun's novels have lost the original idea, and since I started early with the game and am generally more fond of "little" stories than of world-changing comic-esque superhero stories, they have nothing to offer to me any more. I stopped buying them with the dragonheart books. Of course, this may have changed ... like I said, I haven't bought a SR novel in years. They may have turned away from that style again; if so, someone please tell me. :)

Club

Mar 6 2005, 08:10 PM

Post #15

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Mar 6 2005, 02:07 PM)

QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)

So, does anybody have a reasonable explanation for how the GGD could possibly have RAISED the mana level?

QUOTE (Moonstone Spider)

Yes, I do expect real-life physics to influence my games. I'm stupid that way.

Nothing wrong with that. The old Physics axiom that energy is neither created or destroyed still holds true. It's jsut a bit more complicated...and like in real-life physics, no one really knows what the Hell is going on. :P

The version I understand is the Shaman who died; that's blood / sacrificial magic. Blood magic raises the mana level / backgroud count as the poor SOB's soul is converted into whatever.

And in Harley's back, the site of the GGD is a spot in the metaplanes. Hence how it is accessed from Azlan (Beyond the pale).

There is some stuff about the GGD in worlds without end.

Edit: and I don't think Shadowrun has had any new novels produced sinse fanpro took over

akarenti

Mar 6 2005, 08:37 PM

Post #16

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Ancient History)

Nothing wrong with that. The old Physics axiom that energy is neither created or destroyed still holds true. It's jsut a bit more complicated...and like in real-life physics, no one really knows what the Hell is going on.

Actually the First Law of Thermodynamics only applies to normal chemical and kenetic reactions. Not always the (empyrical) case in nuclear reactions (E doesn't always exactly equal MC^2; scientists theorize what the excess energy is converted into a non-measurable form of energy to fulfill the First Law). But if you can't measure it, you can't prove the law applies.

I have to say I'm not big on series literature at all. Usually novels with a giant trademarked logo appearing 3x the size of the book's actually title fail to impress me. Of course, I think the last time I read an actual novel was like 8 years ago. . .

torzzzzz View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 08:41 PM Post #17
It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067	I haven't read any of the SR novels as i am reluctant to see someones views on the whole SR world, however if it tells of the history could anyone recommend any?? torz x

Crimson Jack

Mar 6 2005, 08:34 PM

Post #18

Running Target

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QUOTE (akarenti)

Usually novels with a giant trademarked logo appearing 3x the size of the book's actually title fail to impress me.

Yes, that is rather lame.

Grinder

Mar 6 2005, 08:54 PM

Post #19

Great, I'm a Dragon...

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QUOTE (torzzzzz)

I haven't read any of the SR novels as i am reluctant to see someones views on the whole SR world, however if it tells of the history could anyone recommend any??

torz x

A lot of novels cover some kind of SR-history. Bug City comes to my mind, dealing with the bug invasion of chicago. Or the mentioned Dragonhear-trilogy, where Dunkie dies and the horrors are stopped.

The earlier novels giv imo a good view of the SR-world, but the newer one simply suck.

hahnsoo View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 08:59 PM Post #20
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014	It should be mentioned that... [ Spoiler ] ... although the Great Ghost Dance did create a spike, it took the efforts of Darke and the resources of Aztechnology to sacrifice enough humans through blood magic to extend the spike to the Horror metaplanes. Also, the run "Harlequin's Back" deals directly with the placement of Thayla's song at the spike of the Great Ghost Dance as a temporary measure to stop the advancement of Horrors into the Sixth World (and "she" was eventually ripped apart during the Dragonheart Trilogy).

hahnsoo

Mar 6 2005, 09:12 PM

Post #21

Mr. Johnson

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QUOTE (Grinder)

Bug City comes to my mind, dealing with the bug invasion of chicago. Or the mentioned Dragonhear-trilogy, where Dunkie dies and the horrors are stopped.

The earlier novels giv imo a good view of the SR-world, but the newer one simply suck.

"Burning Bright" is the novel about Bug City, and it is definitely worth a read. The Dragonheart Trilogy is on the "uber" end of things, but you get a lot of secret background information about Roxborough, some bits of Echo Mirage, and the real story behind the Dunkelzahn "assassination". "Worlds Without End" gives background information about Aina Dupree and Harlequin in particular, and the Horrors in general. "Psychotrope" deals with the Mirage AI and otaku (indirectly).

hermit

Mar 6 2005, 09:22 PM

Post #22

The King In Yellow

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QUOTE

and I don't think Shadowrun has had any new novels produced sinse fanpro took over

Nope, there're LOTS, at least in German.

Club View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 09:59 PM Post #23
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 190 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,787	Until they translate them into something I can understand, doesn't count. How are they, for those of you who can read German? Edit: Hey, I've evolved!

Adam

Mar 6 2005, 10:43 PM

Post #24

Prime Runner

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QUOTE (Club)

Edit: and I don't think Shadowrun has had any new novels produced sinse fanpro took over

WizKids has the English-language novel rights -- it's not like FanPro has the rights and isn't doing anything with them.

Endgame50 View Member Profile	Mar 6 2005, 10:44 PM Post #25
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 192 Joined: 19-July 04 From: N 42° 43.799'. W 84° 27.901' Member No.: 6,496	I think the site said they're going to be publishing some novels to go with Shadowrun Duels... erm... Yay?

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