 The Roads of Europe, Calling our Europeans DSF population |
 Mar 9 2005, 03:14 AM
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#1
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The back-up plan  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910  |
Speaking as the American in France, I stared in horror and complete befuddlement when I was expected to pay for the privilege of driving on a public highway. (CA has its share of toll roads but nothing nearly to the expanse of France.)
My question is how does the rest of Europe compare? Particularly Spain and Italy... Also a quick nod to the Shadows of Europe team, I've said it before, but you guys did an excellent job. I feel the flow from past to future and love how you were able to root a lot of material in the history of Europe. I only hope that SoA does the same. |
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Mar 9 2005, 03:22 AM
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#2
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
I've been in England a lot and never saw a toll road there.
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Mar 9 2005, 03:26 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
There are a ton of toll roads in the States. How could you miss them?
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Mar 9 2005, 03:31 AM
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#4
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
I'm am American who lived in Europe for 3 years (specifically Ireland and then Hungary) - I didn't hit a lot of toll roads, though. I heard they're horrendous in France, but other places either weren't bad or were easily navigable around. In Hungary, the big, new, fast highways were a little expensive but not prohibitivly. And it was easy to go around them, it just took longer as you had to go through every little village on the way. In German, Austria and Germany, everything was nice - the autobahn kicks ass (or should I say arse).
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Mar 9 2005, 03:31 AM
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#5
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Fortune--True, but it's possible to drive from one city to another without stopping 5 times to pay a toll.
I drove from Paris to Grenoble and had to pay repeatedly... |
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Mar 9 2005, 03:29 AM
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#6
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
That would be because our very first stretch of toll motorway, the M6 Toll, only opened a year or so ago. |
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Mar 9 2005, 03:32 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 86 Joined: 8-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,949 |
In California, no. On the east coast, yes. I was recently in England and Ireland, but they've already been mentioned. I don't remember any toll-booths in Germany, Austria or Switzerland, but it's been 14 years since I've been there. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 9 2005, 03:50 AM
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#8
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Guests |
Unless you drive down I-40, the 15 and the 10 from the AZ border into Los Angeles. Or through any of the cities in LAC. Or L.A. to San Diego. Or... Well, you get the idea. |
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Mar 9 2005, 04:09 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 86 Joined: 8-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,949 |
Did this happen in the last few years? I never had to pay a toll once when I lived in LA. I guess it's happening all over now. We're about to get our first toll road in the Twin Cities. My guess is that by 2060 all the toll-booths will be gone even if the toll roads still exist. They'll just track your vehicle through the Grid system and charge your credstick automatically. |
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Mar 9 2005, 04:36 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 265 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bangkok (sometimes Paris) Member No.: 332 |
Actually, they're not completely public. Most were built by private contractors who got a loooong lease on it in exchange for a reduced bill to the state. So, in effect, most are private or semi-private. Not that it would change anything. I'm quite sure that when the lease ends, the booth will stay and the money will go to the state... |
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Mar 9 2005, 04:46 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 265 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bangkok (sometimes Paris) Member No.: 332 |
To be more on a SR topic and avoid thread closure, the SR equivalent of those highways are the EuroRoutes. Expect them to be very fast and efficient, and expensive. And as you can see on the map, they cross all over Europe.
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 9 2005, 04:57 AM
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#12
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Guests |
Please, go on. This will only take a second.
This is how I read your post: It is NOT possible to drive from one city to another IN CALIFORNIA without stopping 5 times to pay a toll. My response was: Yes, it is. Perhaps my grammar is incorrect, but I like to think I know the difference between a positive and negative verb. |
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Mar 9 2005, 05:07 AM
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#13
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
In the Hungary SB, the biggest AA in Hungary is the Central European Highway Corporation (the name's in English in the book) which administers the system of highways around Hungary. They have security to enforce their policies and kick butt if necessary (against go-gangs and bandits, etc). Everybody pays tolls to use said roads. |
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Mar 9 2005, 05:14 AM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I think it was meant the opposite way, since the East Coast is chock-full of toll roads. |
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Mar 9 2005, 05:22 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 86 Joined: 8-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,949 |
Your grammar is perfect, I was getting it wrong. Sorry. I would edit my post, but then it would make all these posts look silly. So, as to what I said earlier: strike that, reverse that. There are not many toll booths in CA (if any?), but there are many of them on the East Coast. That is what I meant. |
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Mar 9 2005, 05:15 AM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
In Cal Free, they have those crazy Ranger-Rigger dudes. Pay up, or eat a missile. Doesn't seem cost-effective, but it's a good abject lesson. :D
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Mar 9 2005, 05:37 AM
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#17
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
It'd be cost effective after word got around. No one would want to make themselves the target of the next missle. |
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Mar 9 2005, 05:44 AM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Which is where the 'abject lesson' part comes in. ;)
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Mar 9 2005, 05:42 AM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 86 Joined: 8-January 05 From: St. Paul, MN Member No.: 6,949 |
This has given me an idea for a character who could make some easy money on the side: Make a troll with a maxed out body attribute. When he's not running he goes out and stands in heavy-trafficed roads during rush hour, blocking the commuters until they pay him off.
Street name: Troll Booth. |
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Mar 9 2005, 08:20 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 3-August 04 Member No.: 6,535 |
Then you are bloody well asking the GM to introduce said Troll to the loving affections of a 40 ton truck at speed.
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Mar 9 2005, 09:05 AM
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#21
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It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
Erm there are a few, M6 Toll road and the severn bridge, and a few in scotland, not many though! torz x ;) |
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Mar 9 2005, 09:28 AM
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#22
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Nowadays: France has the highest tarrifs in Europe. If in France, don't use the highways (autoroute), go for the interstates (route nationale) instead. Most of those are built like a highway, too, and best, they're free of charge. Sometimes, there's no way around using a highway, but get off of them as soon as you can.
Austria and Switzerland have pretty stiff tariffs too. Especially Switzerland, which requires you to buy a year's vignette even if you only so breifly cross onto teir highways (price is around 50 Euros, I think). Germany so far is free of charge, unless you're a truck driver. Italy and Spain also have tolled highways, but those are somewhat more affordable than France's. In Shadowrun, I would expect the Euroroutes to cost like highways in France. Not only do the owners have to pay for road maintainance (the need for which, due to free earth elementals and spirits and whatnot, should have increased significantly), but they also have to pay for the highways to be kept free of hoodlums and critters of al kinds. Plus I'd expect the highway patrol to be armed to the teeth, maybe even see the national armies - or special militias, like in the ADL - patrol the highways. |
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Mar 9 2005, 09:38 AM
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#23
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
Agree. The way it is in France should propably be concidered a pointer to how it will be everywere if the future becomes anywere near Shadowrun´s collaps of nation states in favour of corporations (in the case of road tarif´s, I don´t know about other things).
With all due respect, there are very few things that can be concidered common to all european countries. We are a diverse bunch. |
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Mar 9 2005, 10:20 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 13-January 05 From: Forgot where his meat body was Member No.: 6,971 |
It depends on the country. France is bad, yes. And I beleive Italy has some too. There aren't any in Denmark, barring if you're planning to cross the Storebelt or Øresund bridges and I can't say I've encountered any in Norway or Sweden either. There may be some cleverly hidden away in Germany, but again I've never encountered any there. There are a few in eastern Europe too.
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Mar 9 2005, 10:49 AM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 3-March 05 From: Paris Area Network Member No.: 7,134 |
> Yes, highway price is high in France. But there is some part of highway wich is free. Of course it's only for some kilometers but for example you can go to Paris by highway from almost all the parisian region for free. There are also some (but I can't say "most of them") interstate which look like highway. It's sure, if you use highway you gain time and it's more simple to find your way, but you can go anywhere without highway.
Note that initially, the french highway are build to be free. The price is just to save the construction price. But of course when people usually pays to use it, with the time, it's usual and so nobody say nothing... then why spend money with free highway since people already pay to use them ? :-/ This is for nowaday. In shadowrun, with all the corporation I think it's pretty the same for the price. And also add technology for surveillance. When there are speed limit on highway, you can find more radar than today. Maybe police helicopter is remplaced by drone, etc. Talking about speed limit, this and other rules should be diferent for each country in europe. For the example of the speed limit, in germany there are no speed limit on highway today, but in france it's limited to 130 Km/h. In SR, driving rules should have also big differences in europe. > Daegann |
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