 The Roads of Europe, Calling our Europeans DSF population |
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 Mar 9 2005, 12:45 PM
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#26
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722  |
As far as I know, the M6 is the only toll road we have. We have several toll bridges or tunnels (Severn Bridge, Forth Bridge, the one in Bristol whose name escapes me, etc).
As time goes by, however, I anticipate tolling in some fashion. There was a proposal... what was it, two years ago? for a black box to replace standard road tax. The idea was that you paid for what you used, with higher rates for using motorways or inner city roads. I think it got slapped down in a storm of "invasion of privacy" anger. It failed now, but imagine that same proposal under the Lord Protector's jurisdiction. |
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Mar 9 2005, 01:20 PM
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#27
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Was that the road featured on the front cover of Good Omens? |
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Mar 9 2005, 01:22 PM
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#28
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
Can't find my copy of that, but I'd guess no - that would probably be the M25 (aka, "The World's Biggest Car Park") which Crowley was responsible for making look like a satanic rune L)
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Mar 9 2005, 01:18 PM
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#29
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It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
Don't forget congestion charges if that counts! nasty!! torz x ;) |
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Mar 9 2005, 01:25 PM
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#30
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
During a recent trip to Italy, whenever you got on the highway you'd have to take a ticket. When you got off, you put the ticket in a machine, which calculated how far you'd travelled, and charged you appropriately.
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Mar 9 2005, 01:33 PM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722 |
I tried. God knows I tried :( FOr those who don't know, congestion charging is the fee you have to pay to use your vehicle within certain parts of inner London. The charge is the same if you drive around all day or if you nip in and out in five minutes:
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Mar 9 2005, 01:37 PM
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#32
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It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
yeah, and they are talking about bringing it to other citys in the UK soon! something about introduceing satnav homers to see if you have paid, and eventualy replacing the road tax system for it....... well at least i would get a free satnav for the car? torz x 8) |
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Mar 9 2005, 02:07 PM
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#33
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
You won't see any, because there are none. The German government wanted to be all satelite-controlled hightech greatness when they were to implement the truck tolling on highways. Tolling stations? Everyone has tolling stations. Liberia likely has tolling stations! Naaaaah, Germany can do better! Thus, the ministry of traffic (headed by a man renowned for several really costly, large-scale and failed development projects from his time as a provincial governor) founded a company called "TollCollect, inc.", which then developed a handy on-board unit device that would be installed into every truck that would ever use Germany's highways. This little thing - basically, a cross between a GPS device and a taxameter - would then track the truck and charge the owner by the meters driven. Of course, cheap or lowtech truck drivers can also buy vignettes for set tracks at gas stations and special shops close to the highway, but that's a complicated process that demands solid knowledge of German or English (which is really bad if you happen to be a romanian truck driver with little knowledge in either language). This was meant to go into service in autumn 2003. Now (spring 2005), it is running for the first time in a halfway successful manner (albeit not on full scale yet). Go figure. :P
Tehre should also be differences in driving styles. Like, in Germany, people tend to drive around 130 to 150, while in France, it seems, whoever actually heeds those 130 is honked at and overtaken (cruising speed there is around 180, unless the car cannot go that fast, that is). |
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Mar 9 2005, 02:20 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 138 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,700 |
no idea about italy, but spain is FULL of toll highways though there usually is an alternative if you dont want to pay, but it tends to involve a smaller road, at slower speeds, with loads of traffic. going from alicante to barcelona for example is not worth it by car unless the car is full. <fuel+toll costs more than a trein ticket> ..hmm still need to read SOE I wonder what they did with spain.. DS |
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Mar 9 2005, 03:57 PM
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#35
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Thanks for everyone's input so far!
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Mar 9 2005, 07:32 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 381 |
In Norway you usually pay for toll roads electronically. A small unit in your window registers that you've passed and you are either billed or have contract (pass as much as you want for a montly fee). Most places you can choose to pay manually, but some places the system just reads your license plate and mail you the bill (yes, there's been some trouble with that part of it). More info here: Autopass.no Probably how it would work in most of the world by 2064, Awakening or no Awakening. |
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Mar 10 2005, 01:34 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 193 Joined: 26-February 02 From: East Jerusalem Member No.: 2,022 |
They may... or not. Especially with the implementation of the EuroRoutes, I guess one of the NEEC measures may have been to harmonize speed limits there. 130 km/h seems a good average. Also note in SR's Germany (DidS2 ?) the speed limit on highways is also 130... |
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Mar 11 2005, 10:58 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
It is a modern myth that German autobahns have no speed limit! While there are parts where you are actually allowed to go as fast as your car can, there is often a speed limit of 140, 120 or even 100. In addition there's a speed suggestion of 130. Some insurance companies refuse to pay for accidents caused by you if you exceeded this speed. |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:13 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
I don't know what the Tír na nÓg sb says about roads here in Ireland, but trust me: they're crap now, they'll be crap in 60 years time.
Maybe, just maybe, the Dublin-Galway, Galway-Sligo, Dublin-Cork, Cork-Limerick, Dublin-Belfast, and Limerick-Athlone roads will be moderately decent... But once you get off the "motorway" (how writing that word in this country makes me laugh... :S ), you'll be onto the narrowest little boreens the world has ever seen. And heaven forfend you have to drive up Glengesh in Donegal. The sheep there already charge any car they see. I'd hate to see what the Awakening does to them... |
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Mar 11 2005, 11:50 AM
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#40
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It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
And from the few time's i have driven over in Ireland, they are MAD, mad i tell you! almost as bad a driving in India! torz ;) |
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Mar 11 2005, 12:08 PM
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#41
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Christ, you're not kidding. A few years ago I spent two weeks hiking and bussing around Ireland and -- make no mistake, I had an absolute blast, but -- your tiny little fucking roads are insane to try and move anywhere on. I'd be scared to drive on them, and here I was hiking 'em. I'm not the only person who ever had to idea to walk or cycle anywhere on them (though I never bought any of the books dealing with it, they exist, and it's apparently a fairly common vacationing method), but I can't tell you how nervous I got whenever I was on anything but a long straightaway, walking along the sides of the road. Most places there's not even room to try and dive to one side or anything (and that's if you could see the car coming). That said, it was still a great time. Two weeks with no plan at all, picking a spot on a map or in a tour book (at random), bussing half the way, hiking the other half, drinking Guiness with dinner and Bushmill's with strangers...then waking up and doing it again the next day. Absolutely great vacation, but terrifying roads. |
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 Mar 11 2005, 12:17 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
We don't have straightaways.
We have slightly less bendy bits of the roads. There are two things you get a lot of practise in, if you drive around Ireland on country roads (and I have to, when driving to and from work): 1: Making use of every damn bit of asphalt on the road, as well as the couple of inches of grass that lie between the edge of the asphalt (if you want to be charitable and call it that) and the stone wall or 3-10 foot drop at the side of the road. 2: Anticipating where you're going to run into some damn idiot Jackeen fucknuckle in an SUV wider than the road, so that you can pull in and let him pass (you never assume that they're going to pull in...trust me...). I am exaggerating very slightly for effect. So if anyone wants to have an exciting car chase in TnO in Shadowrun, just bear in mind that if you're off a national road, you won't be doing more than 80kph (if you're daring and lucky) - and if you go that fast and don't know the road, you might end up saying high to Flossy, the awakened cannibal sheep... @Critias: I'm glad you enjoyed your holiday. Yes, hiking and biking are very popular ways to tour around Ireland. I'd never do it. I'm not that crazy... :wobble: Edit: PS - "Jackeen" is an extremely derogatory word for people from Dublin, used by everyone else in the country. They call us Culchies. [ Spoiler ]
This post has been edited by Demosthenes: Mar 11 2005, 12:28 PM |
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Mar 11 2005, 12:46 PM
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#43
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It's for winners Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 523 Joined: 8-February 05 From: Wiltshire with da shooty stuff Member No.: 7,067 |
Same in Wales, when you see a bend in the road sign it means a fraggin 90 degrees turn! the Welsh don't know about straight lines! torz x ;) This post has been edited by torzzzzz: Mar 11 2005, 12:47 PM |
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Mar 11 2005, 01:45 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
[ot] :grinbig: Is that why Shane Williams is so good at changing direction?
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Mar 11 2005, 02:42 PM
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#45
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Roads in Europe tend to be a lot more narrow and winding than in the US. You get used to it. In fact, when I was in HAwaii (Big Island) in 2000, the car rental guy wanred be to never, EVER take the Saddle Road, because it was ... well, from his description, I got the impression it was half roller coaster, half Mad Max wastelands road littered with burn-out vehicles, mutants and killbots.
Turned out it was pretty tame compared to what I have driven on in France's Alps. It was almost wide enough for two American cars, and there never was a ravine right besides the road, only lava fields full of pointy rocks. And you could see the road in advance for almost a kilometer literally all the time! Not to mention that, unlike the French Alps, I never encountered any opposing traffic, let alone drunkards who think that driving down a narrow mountain serpentines road at 150 kph is fun. Every day, when I commute to the city, I pass a narrow, 1 1/2 lane road, where maximum speed is 100 (meaning that, if you drive slower, you will be honked at, and people will drive up till their bumper almost touches yours, flash their lights, and generally freak out) It's lined with trees - your average German alley road. Every damn tree on that troad, save for three that have been üplanted only recently, has it's own little cross, burn mark and little piles of glass splinters lying about. It's quite the dangerous road, yet it's getting a lot of traffic, because it's a main axis for commuters from the suburbs to the city. The road wasn't built with that in mind, though - it was built with Eastern border guard convoys moving back and forth in mind - so ... well, you gotta cope with that. There's a reason driving school usually lasts around one and a half to two years here. Heightens survival rates enormously. |
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Mar 11 2005, 02:56 PM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
The population of Ireland is 5,000,000 or so, including the 6 counties (that's 'The North' for everyone else). The population of the Republic of Ireland is somewhere around 3.8 million. More than 300,000 Irish motorists have still not passed the driving test. And we Irish are worse drivers than the Italians. The Italians all think they're Michael Schumacher (hey, he drives for Ferrari...), and have no manners. The average Irish driver thinks 'Right of way' is one of those old medieval common-law things, having to do with access to land and stuff... This is also likely to remain unchanged over the next 60 years... Bitter? Moi? :D |
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Mar 11 2005, 06:11 PM
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#47
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
Okay: Irish and Welsh roads are pretty bad. Been there, driven that. But the worst roads in Europe...
Romania. I have never been so afraid for my life like I was in the Carpathians. And not because of the vampires. *shudder* |
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Mar 11 2005, 07:45 PM
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#48
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The King In Yellow Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,922 Joined: 26-February 05 From: JWD Member No.: 7,121 |
Hahahaha! Even been to Turkey? Good thing Allah is omnipresent - the Turks really need him to be, or else they'd die out in a matter of days. The Turk govenment has taken on the habit of not towing car wrecks away, but leaving them beside the road. If you're driving towards Van, a stronghold of the PKK rebels, this really gives the street an eerie feeling, I can tell you ... Oh, as does finding a skull while taking a piss on the roadside. A skull with a hole in it's forehead. *shudders* |
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Mar 11 2005, 08:03 PM
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#49
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
Okay, you win. :P The only things I encountered along the sides of the roads in Romania were sheer drops, hitchhikers, and fat, 50+ year old prostitutes...
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 11 2005, 08:24 PM
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#50
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Guests |
Yeah, autopass is great. Here in the U.S., we use it to pay for gas at the pump, too. Proximity cards are badass. Anyway, the thing about autopass is that there is still a tollbooth. It may not be manned, but it's still something that has to be constructed, operated, maintained, and replaced with human operators in a catastrophic failure of technology. What I understand about the process hermit mentioned is that it completely does away with toll booths as something African warlords set up. Instead, with a GPS receiver and a set of coordinates, it would be possible to automatically charge you toll just by virtue of your car's coordinates being along an area where a toll is charged, and you never even see a booth. It's also in use to a certain extent here, already. There have been cases where a rental car company itself fines a driver for excess speeding because their OnStar or other GPS navigation system clocks them going over 100 mph/167kph (Supposedly, GPS speedometers are more accurate than the one in your dash, too). As it is, there is currently a fight underway in the U.S. for electronic black boxes to be mandatorily installed in vehicles under regulations set forth by the Department of Transportation which would indicate, amongst other things, the speed you were traveling at. But the proliferation of thse GPS navigation systems and services (e.g., OnStar) creates a situation as described in Rigger 3 Revised where the police could automatically fine you for speeding because OnStar/GridGuide ratted you out. And I don't think that the Constitution can save you any more than you can use it to fight the fact that refusing to consent to a DWI test is an automatic misdemeanor (in this state, anyway) because you have to waive that privilege in order to get a driver's license. |
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