RL Firearms Question - Dumpshock Forums

RL Firearms Question, ATF site is crap...

Solstice View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:21 AM Post #51
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960	It's the principle of the reaction he is speaking to I believe. Any reason, any reason at all that they can use to keep a gun from being had by law abiding citizens they will use. It doesn't have to be logical and 90% of the time it isn't.

Critias View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:18 AM Post #52
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714	In principle, I'm against that sort of rabid knee-jerk ignorant gun control, too. I just think it's a little extreme to feel like you're left to the tender mercies of the cruel world just because you can't, very specifically, carry that handgun. It's a bit of a stretch to feel completely unprotected 'cause you've got to carry a Desert Eagle .50 instead of a FN 57. ;)

Pthgar View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:19 AM Post #53
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642	Anti-saftey because knee-jerk legistlation is harmful to my safety. Anti-saftey because some criminals do wear body armor (the Bank of America robbery was in California.) Anti-saftey because I am not a criminal and keeping me from owning any particular firearm does not correlate with keeping criminals from illeagally aquiring it, which is the way it would (and will) be aquired by them in any event.

Solstice

Mar 16 2005, 07:20 AM

Post #54

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 16 2005, 02:18 AM)

In principle, I'm against that sort of rabid knee-jerk ignorant gun control, too. I just think it's a little extreme to feel like you're left to the tender mercies of the cruel world just because you can't, very specifically, carry that handgun. It's a bit of a stretch to feel completely unprotected 'cause you've got to carry a Desert Eagle .50 instead of a FN 57. ;)

well no sane person would be carring a DE unless he felt an imminent threat from an angry hippo. :D

Solstice

Mar 16 2005, 07:30 AM

Post #55

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Critias)

In principle, I'm against that sort of rabid knee-jerk ignorant gun control, too. I just think it's a little extreme to feel like you're left to the tender mercies of the cruel world just because you can't, very specifically, carry that handgun. It's a bit of a stretch to feel completely unprotected 'cause you've got to carry a Desert Eagle .50 instead of a FN 57. ;)

Ahh but see that is the essense of it. It's not because you NEED to carry a five-seven. What's important is the fact that you COULD carry one if you wanted to, that you have the choice and it's not made by Barbara Boxer.

Critias

Mar 16 2005, 07:33 AM

Post #56

Freelance Elf

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QUOTE (Pthgar @ Mar 16 2005, 02:19 AM)

Anti-saftey because knee-jerk legistlation is harmful to my safety.
Anti-saftey because some criminals do wear body armor (the Bank of America robbery was in California.)
Anti-saftey because I am not a criminal and keeping me from owning any particular firearm does not correlate with keeping criminals from illeagally aquiring it, which is the way it would (and will) be aquired by them in any event.

Limiting the availability of a given firearm does, in theory, make it a little harder for everyone (criminals included) to get ahold of, or at least that's what the guys running the show like to tell themselves. If they ever stepped up and admitted that their gun control crap only kept law abiding citizens from having those guns, they'd have to backpedal on so many other issues they'd slip in their own bullshit and break their necks.

So, well, you just gotta deal with it. The AW ban expired, some of their other stupid laws have to, eventually. In the meantime, if it matters just that much that you keep a FN around (so you can stop the kevlar-laced bank robbers, next time), maybe you should just move somewhere else? There are forty-nine other states I can think of off the top of my head that are much, much, less anal about firearms than California is.

(Edit -- and I thought it had been covered that the FN's magical armor penetration abilities are overblown by legislation? It's not like it really would be much more of a help against the Bank of America guys, y'know?)

Pthgar View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:38 AM Post #57
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642	Good God, the DE is the biggest piece of crap I've ever shot. Well, to be fair, it may have been poorly maintained by the range. The slide caught the cartridge when more than one round was loaded in the clip. When you loaded and chambered one round at a time, the casing flipped up and hit me in the forhead every time. It was kind of funny.

Critias

Mar 16 2005, 07:41 AM

Post #58

Freelance Elf

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QUOTE (Pthgar)

Good God, the DE is the biggest piece of crap I've ever shot. Well, to be fair, it may have been poorly maintained by the range. The slide caught the cartridge when more than one round was loaded in the clip. When you loaded and chambered one round at a time, the casing flipped up and hit me in the forhead every time. It was kind of funny.

I was making a joke.

Pthgar View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:37 AM Post #59
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642	And I was telling a funny story. We are two hilarious guys. :D

Austere Emancipa... Austere Emancipator View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:54 AM Post #60
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222	Personally, I think this would be the perfect home defense weapon, because then I can stop people with armored cars from robbing banks within a 1½-mile radius of my place.

Raygun View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:48 AM Post #61
Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176	Going on about this kind of thing in here is exactly what Neuron Basher asked us all not to do. As much as I would love to join the debate, this is really is not the place to have this kind of discussion. If you really want to fight about it, it would be wise to take the debate to another forum before this thread gets shut down.

Austere Emancipa... Austere Emancipator View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 07:51 AM Post #62
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222	Wise words.

Pthgar View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 08:02 AM Post #63
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642	Well, we more or less agree in principle, so it's not really a debate, more like a discussion, and I will now apply it to SR. Have the firearms laws in the UCAS been federalized or are they still up to the individual states? Obviously the legality codes are different from country to country but what if the team is going from, say Boston to Detroit. I remember availabilty changes in "Target:UCAS" but not legality changes. By the way, speaking of legality. If a runner gets caught with illeagal ammo even in a legal weapon, a GM can really screw with them because it is a seperate offense for each round in the magazine, at least in RL.

Arethusa

Mar 16 2005, 08:12 AM

Post #64

Runner

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QUOTE (Raygun @ Mar 16 2005, 02:48 AM)

Going on about this kind of thing in here is exactly what Neuron Basher asked us all not to do. As much as I would love to join the debate, this is really is not the place to have this kind of discussion. If you really want to fight about it, it would be wise to take the debate to another forum before this thread gets shut down.

More to the point, as the community seems to have recently begun to achieve some sort of critical mass, it might be time to publicly reopen debate on bringing back off topic forums in an unusually sensible display of administrative policy on Dumpshock.

As it stands, as much as I'd like to agree with Raygun that it's inappropriate to discuss this here, I feel it is more important to point out that this keeps happening all the goddamn time, and maybe it's time that that got some recognition and better handling than admins jumping in and telling everyone to shut up just because.

JaronK View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 09:53 AM Post #65
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 942 Joined: 13-May 04 Member No.: 6,323	Considering how quickly this turned ugly (I posted, the next two posts were clearly flames), I think this thread is an excellent arguement that we shouldn't have such a forum. JaronK

Austere Emancipa... Austere Emancipator View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 10:12 AM Post #66
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222	I have to agree with JaronK here. If you want to get together and insult people who hold different views on politics and society in general (and this goes for both extremes), there are far better places for that.

Snow_Fox

Mar 16 2005, 12:45 PM

Post #67

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QUOTE (Solstice)

QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Mar 15 2005, 11:21 PM)

If someone legally buys the gun in their state and then brings it to your state to sell it to you without the proper paperwork, that is gun running and is illegal.
If you visit a friend in another state and that person legally buys a gun and then hands it over to you, even if you provided the friend with the money, that is a straw purchase, and is illegal.

Your wrong. Anyone can do what they want with a firearm they have purchased. As far as I know (and I live in Idaho which has pretty liberal [in a good sense] gun laws) a person can buy a gun in NV and give or sell it to someone in another state. Paperwork and background checks do not govern the sale of normal weapons between private individuals, nor does it govern a persons ability to give someone a weapon as a gift. As long as it's legal for the reciptient to posses such a weapon it is perfectly legal.

So...while I'm not an expert on CA gun laws (in fact I choose to ignore the festering cancer of a state), as long as you can posses a pistol legally then there is nothing illegal about recieving a gift from someone, or buying it from a private individual.

*DISCLAIMER* Gun laws vary from state to state so the best thing to do would be to visit your state website or call your local Sheriffs office for info, but I would advise against giving your name or any other information

no, I'm not.
Federal law regarding the movment of fire arms. Why do you think they have trouble in the Norht eats with people buying guys legally in South Carolina and then driving up the east coast to New York or New Jersey and selling them on the street?

Don't think so? Try opening for business like that from your car on an idaho street and see how long it take the budges to show.

You did cover the idea of the recipient getting legal owns, but the difference between where you and i are is I'm talking handguns. I know you can be given a long arm as a gift-I got an enfield as a house warming gift.

Federal forms you need to buy a firearm even in a friendly state like Pennsylvanai ask if you are buying the gun for yourself? Answer "no" and they can't do it. Sure you can hand the gun to a frined, but that friend must then register the firearm under their own name. I don't know about Idaho, but Pennsylvania is a very gun friendly state but if I were to buy a gun in my name and then give it to a friend from New York, if that friend didn't register it according to the laws of their home state, it is illegal. It's a "straw purchase" and is a crime. Me for providing the weapon, him for taking posession.

The ATF is cutting down on these things . It is also why congress wants to limit the number of guns a person can leagally buy in a given time period, so that one person can't pick up a car load of guns in a weekend for a run .

Neuron Basher View Member Profile	Mar 16 2005, 01:02 PM Post #68
The Ghost in our Machine Group: Retired Admins Posts: 166 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Unlisted Datastore Member No.: 52	Don't say I didn't warn you guys.

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