Street Magic, So much for one book's enough :( Options

[Aes]

Browsing the FanPro 2005 catalogue from Battlecorps in pdf format, this just sprung to my eye:

[Nikoli]

sad, and thus all my hopes and dream did come crashing about my head.

[DocMortand]

heh...beat ya to it :)

[mfb]

yes. it'd be a much better idea to release a $200, 600-page book that contains all the rules, ever. that'd be a great way to draw new players in, and certainly wouldn't be financial suicide.

[UpSyndrome]

Exactly what I was worried about. I understand they need to make money, but I gotta eat, and by the time I can buy another 20 shadowrun books (cause that's about how many 3rd edition books I have), they'll probably be working on 5th edition (which has more to do with my financial situation than the speed at which they produce more editions).

-Joe

[DocMortand]

Yeah, it does look like a rehash - I hope they put something truly different in there or people will really howl for heads.

Frankly, at least it's better than WH40K which doesn't try to be backwards compatible....*grumble*

[mfb]

so, they should... what? not release new products? or package everything into one insanely expensive tome, so that nobody can afford it? release schedules are how gaming works.

however. it will be interesting to see if FP follows the new WotC model, and begin releasing books as both hardcopy and .pdf downloads.

[Demonseed Elite]

Yeah, like mfb said. It really depends on how they do it. WotC's streamlining of D&D's rules and their foundation in the basic player's and DM's handbooks didn't prevent them from coming out with later books with advanced rules. But it's still all based in their basic books.

[UpSyndrome]

I'm not saying what they should or should not do, I'm just whining about how it affects me. Don't read too far into a completely self centered post.

EDIT: Also, I hope they don't do it like WOTC, who seems to think that they won't sell books unless they add in slightly more powerful feats/new races/base classes that completely escalate the game over time. A number of people I know have come to hate that style (mostly DMs).

-Joe

[Aristotle]

Having the core system in one book is excellent. Some systems require two (D&D) or more (WoD) books to have the base rules to play the base 'classes'. Regardless of the game; advanced rules, niche themes, and cap systems should be expected in future supplements. An ongoing line of quality products ensures the game company can stay in business, and keeps our heads filled with a continuous stream of concepts for characters and campaigns for years to follow.

[k1tsune]

I dunno. I sorta liked the magic book. It meant that non-Awakened sorts could pretty much ignore it, and Awakened-sorts could clutch it like the holy book it is.

[DocMortand]

eh, I see what you're saying, mfb. But I hope at least they include (and drop some of the flatly stupid things) the magic supplementals in SOTA 64 as well as T:AL, etc. If they combine everything while they streamline, that would be nice.

I do hope they don't merge shamans and mages tho...I always liked the dichotomy of the scientific versus nature in magical styles.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Oh, dude. Don't even get me started.

As I was discussing with mfb last night: I'd be tickled thirteen shades of pink if this meant breaking up the totems into new traditions, at the very least to cut down on the insane number of totems. Given the rules expansions for different types of Hermetics, euro-magic, the Paths of Wujen, Loa, Wheel, Adept, Mage and Shaman can be easily expanded so that Mage includes the Hermetic schools and Shaman is divided into geographic totems, which are different other than in name only, while Idol followers and Mythic/Paranormal Totems are also treated differently because they are different.

[DocMortand]

Eh...I kinda like having the insane number of totems myself. But that's my opinion, so it really doesn't matter all that much.

Frankly, as long as it's all in the expansion and not spread through God's creation I'll be happy.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Well, I also like DE's ideas about totems.

But there is a certain point where some of the totems and idols would be one and the same in certain geographic regions, and the rules should reflect that. I see no reason why I can't play someone from Pueblo who follows Sky Father or Plumed Serpent, especially since they are both part of the mythology of the region. But at the same time, the idea of a Lion or Gator shaman in PCC is ridiculous. I don't even know where they came from that they'd be NA totems.

[MYST1C]

I would hope that "Street Magic" is mainly a fluff book, giving details and backgrounds to the various magical traditions, with only a small "Advanced Rules" section.
Think "Awakenings" instead of "Magic in the Shadows".

[apple]

Well, you can hope for a peaceful world, where everyone is happy, too ... ;-)

I suppose, that the new magic book will be mainly a rule book with a minor fluff-section. But I always said that a Target: Magic would be nice.

SYL

[Demonseed Elite]

There's also a lot more to consider than just opinions of which you like better. I mean, right now, shamans have a ruleset for their use of magic, hermetics have another one (their spirit conjuring works differently, they don't get totem bonuses, etc.), houngans have another one (yes, yet another system for spirit conjuring), etc., etc.

To me, from a design perspective, that's a bit of a nightmare. It's not really a matter of whether I like the material or not, but you've got a situation where it's already a mess on the bottom, no less building and developing on it later (like adding stuff like the Hermetic schools, which I love the concept of, but it makes a complicated system even more complicated).

Really, I'd think you'd want as fundamentally basic a system on the bottom as possible, regardless of whether you're talking about shamans, hermetics, houngans, wuxing, psionicists, followers of the Many-Headed Puppy God, whatever. Then leave it open enough that you can expand on it with advanced rules that create conceptual differences between the various types of casters while all working on the same basic rules system.

Kinda like what Crimson mentioned, where Hermetic Schools and Totems might work with the same basic rules frame in mind. That said, I really have no idea what they are doing yet or have planned. So we'll see.

[apple]

Well, considerung SOTA 64 and the elemental schools from the MitS (+2w6 for combat spells, -1w6 for illusions for exemple), its already pretty similar.

SYL

[mfb]

here's how it ought to work.

magic can be bought on a point-by-point basis. only want two points? buy two points. want to be a full mage? buy six. this should be possible both during chargen and during play.

each point of magic comes with a single metamagic. in this case, the ability to cast a single type of spell (combat, manipulation, etc.) would count as one metamagic, as would be the ability to conjure a single spirit type (fire elemental, spirit of man, etcetera).

package deals would be available: you could buy the Hermetic Mage package, and get a whopping eleven metamagics for your 6 magic (five types of spells, four spirits, astral perception, astral projection). your selection of future metamagics would, however, be limited, as are your means of advancement--you'd have to use the trappings of your chosen school for all rituals, libraries, etcetera.

alternatively, you could be Eclectic. buy magic on a point-for-point basis, selecting whatever metamagic you desire. you get less bang for your buck, but your options for advancement are wide open. you would be able to use any trappings from any school, or make up your own.

[DocMortand]

I like the concept, but how would the adept fit in?

[Nikoli]

Don't forget to toss Physical Magic in there

[mfb]

i think adept package deals would be based on their path, and would offer discounts on certain powers. each power point would count as a seperat metamagic.

[mmu1]

The difference between SR and, say, D&D 3.0 is that while WotC released tons of new material for D&D - regional books, books with new spells, new feats, new prestige classes, etc., which could and did result in power creep and general clutter, it didn't actually release very many new rules.

In SR, magic, rigging and decking are not expanded in the "supplements", they're changed in major ways. And while SR should get some slack because of how many different facets it has, this sort of massive rules-bloat is an indication of a poor design.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]