 Your top 5, What top 5 things would you like to see |
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 Mar 16 2005, 07:49 AM
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#76
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
it happened in SR3. i don't know where exactly the rule is, but i do know that the example of an astral journey had one astral character flying through someone else's physical body.
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Mar 16 2005, 08:35 AM
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#77
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16-March 05 Member No.: 7,169 |
Heh, thanks. I've lurked on this forum on and off for a while, but only the SR4 announcement got me excited enough to post ;) |
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Mar 16 2005, 08:39 AM
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#78
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Welcome to the Insanity Brigade, Upsilon. *G*
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Mar 16 2005, 10:30 AM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UK Member No.: 340 |
Okay, my 5:
1. Make the rules consistent - remove any hint of splitting Skill dice ala Sorcery and Conjuring. if you want to split a Skill make it into a dicepool and have it act like every other dice pool i.e. refresh once per turn. Also remove open tests - instead use number of successes to see how well you used Stealth etc. 2. Make gear easier to purchase at character creation. This is the part that takes ages. Have a few optional packages of gear that are simply grouped by purpose e.g. a surveillance package, a B&E package etc. Each package should cost a nice round amount e.g. 5k, 20k, 100k so if I had 90k Resources I could just say "I'll have those three 20k packages, those two 5k packages, a High lifestyle and two extra contacts." 3. Make the decking system the parallel of the physical, e.g. have a virtual Body, Quickness and Strength. Have a couple of different skills for hacking rather than just Computer, e.g. a combat skill, an intrusion skill and maybe an evasion skill. Reduce the complexity of jackpoints and decks. 4. Simplify the rigging and vehicle combat rules - a simple chase system of opposed tests or something. 5. Have everything presented as if a new game - a complete reboot without the need for old sourcebooks or references to past metaplot. Encourage people to get in on the groiund floor again. Also in terms of future metaplot keep it short and sweet - wrap up each strand in less than a year and keep each strand confined to only one or two books e.g. like Blood in the Boardroom. Make it so that anyone strand of metaplot can be ignored without upsetting the overall setting. |
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Mar 16 2005, 10:52 AM
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#80
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Good ol' Germany Member No.: 7,015 |
Hello
My Top 5: Revised Damage codes (no more my Fist does more Damage than a large knife or a 9mm Auto-Pistol does less damage than a 9 mm MP) Revised Concealability Rules ,weight &Price-Rules Same Rules for Damage (Armed Combat & Firefights / Magic & Melee) Simplified Matrix & Rigger-Rules For Character Creation Point System as Default with more "Races" (Windlings,Halflings,but no ! Dracos !!!) with Dance from germany Medicineman |
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Mar 16 2005, 11:05 AM
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#81
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UK Member No.: 340 |
Want to add a couple more@
6: Only one Initiative roll per combat, with an option to use an action to re-roll (in game this would be re-assessing the situation). This would speed up gameplay but would need a change in the way multiple actions are determined - perhaps have it as a fixed amount, or do away with multiple actions a turn completely? 7: Have all the necessary rule sin teh core book, including Surgery rules! (it was in 1st ed but not the other damn core books!). Also if you are going to include critters, include some the PCs might interact with, not just dragons! Expansion books should be more about extra kit, weapons and gear, new uses for existing skills, and more background info than new rules. I.e. the Matrix book would have stuff like who the top megas in the industry are and what are teh best virtual places are (sort of teh fluff from Matrix combined with Target: Matrix). |
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Mar 16 2005, 11:07 AM
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#82
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 321 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Germany/Europe/Terra/Sol Member No.: 684 |
@Medizinmann
Oh god, please, no! No other races! Keep it Human, Elf, Orc, Dwarf, Troll (and the friggin' rare metavariants). Don't add another level of metagaming confusion and racism and world-shattering "new mystical stuff". Let Shadowrun become more cyberpunk and less fantasy again. Even if it's only slightly. If halflings or windlings pop up as shadowrunners, this would be the first thing I would totally and absouletely ignore from the start. That would be just comical. In a very, very bad way... |
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Mar 16 2005, 01:53 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Word! I still get get shivers just thinking at Mike's dreaded "Gunz are keeeewl" foreword in Cannon Companion. Or his weird "They shoot wild horses" adventure that presented a rather strange view of the SR world in general and shadowrunners in particular. And Kenson's über-mage Talon... |
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Mar 16 2005, 01:55 PM
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#84
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
I kind of like Talon. It´s a bold move having him be gay.
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Mar 16 2005, 03:08 PM
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#85
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
That's definetely not my issue with this character. |
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Mar 16 2005, 03:04 PM
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#86
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I like the whole astral beings not interacting with living auras any differently than inanimate. It simply created too many paradoxes the old way. They should implement some form of affordable astral security, sure, but that could be as simple as stone enchanted to be dual-natured or some such.
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Mar 16 2005, 05:08 PM
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#87
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
What I want to see changed...
1) More non-Shadowrunner cyberware. Mr. Studd, color changing eyes, shifting tattoos, implanted personal secretaries, and sensical cyber limbs 2) More focus on non-standard character types, such as the rock star, the tax accountant, etc. 3) Better rules for non-standard attacks (cream pie, seltzer water) 4) Rules for more non-standard creatures (sasquatches) 5) A little less emphasis on magic types and more variety for mundanes |
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Mar 16 2005, 05:35 PM
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#88
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
My top 5:
1: Put all the rules in one book. Use later sourcebooks for additional gear, Cyberware spells, etc... but keep the rules in one book! 2: Make the rules consistent across melee/ranger combat/magic/etc.... Use the same mechanics for everything. 3. Ala carte Character Creation rules for the Magically active using a build point system. Make it so that you can purchase Conjuring, Sorcery, Adept abilites and Astral Perception seperately. The more abilities you want, the more it costs. If you want a character that can only conjure elementals and has Increased Reflexes, great. 4: Decking rules that allow the decker to particpate more with the rest of the group in real time. 5: Shadowtalk in the rulebooks from a character with my nickname. :) |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
Mar 16 2005, 06:07 PM
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#89
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Guests |
He is single-handedly responsible for SURGE, a transgression which I will never forgive.
SR3, p. 173. When it said, "Physical beings may sense when an astral form passes through them." Why do you think FAB became dual-natured, and vine guards had to be "engineered" to stop or detect astral travel? The Leeches, for crying out loud, are built around this new premise that one can travel through living beings, and the leeches can only detect and alert Deus, not physicall stop an astral intruder.
Same here. I think the fact that he actually writes (and no one dares utter the word "bullshit") in DotSW that he's had multiple opportunities to ask dragons about their magical system was the point when I lost all respect for the character. The fact that he's gay is also a non-issue especially to me since I play one as well (gay man, just to avoid the questions/comments). My problem with Kenson goes primarily to his (lack of) effective writing skills. His writing is not well-structured. His rules descriptions are illogical, incoherent, disjointed, vague, and contradictory. If you can read MitS without wanting to commit a serious act of violence to yourself or Mr. Kenson, more power to you. I cannot, because reading his material is like reading posts by some non-native English-speaking DSers. The difference is that I can generally understand what the DSers are saying, and I don't feel compelled to correct them when speaking a language that isn't their first. Kenson, OTOH, has been published multiple times. He's an English-speaker from New England. He should be held to at least a minimal standard of writing and grammar that I hold myself to when I post online, let alone professional writing. The fact that he doesn't, combined with the fact that Mike M put him in charge of writing whole sourcebooks (although some, like NS, were re-edited versions of old SBs by better authors) and being the go-to guy for magic for Mike M under SR2 and 3 would, IMO, require him to actually be capable of writing well. My other major complaint has to do with factual errors that pop up throughout his books, which are wrong IRL or within the context of SR's history. I've had this argument before about how well-informed an author should be about what they're writing with Szeto, but the fact remains that when you put your name on something you should be held accountable for it. The editors deserve some of the blame, of course, as does Mike (and now Rob). And I do hold them accountable. And like I said, he and Mike were the Nigel and Dowd of SR for the last ten years insofar as pretty much every major event that happened in SR was written in part or in whole by Kenson much as Findley wrote, and thus helped shape, the metaplot and overall atmosphere of SR. You remember when I railed against the idea of SoE last summer, but then I read it? The difference is that under Rob, and with Kenson gone, I realized what it was I hated about Shadowrun. I hated the atmosphere, the poor writing, and the general direction of the game. And the more I considered it, the more I realized that a lot of that hatred found its way to the same source: Kenson and Mulvihill. |
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Mar 16 2005, 06:11 PM
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#90
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Note Calonna Member No.: 241 |
Amen. |
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Mar 16 2005, 07:03 PM
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#91
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
If I may borrow a movie quote that one of my bosses likes to throw out, Where have you been? Freeze-dried, or doing hard time? |
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Mar 16 2005, 09:30 PM
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#92
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
Actually I think having rules for every sentient race (perhaps avoiding those who are incompatible with Shadowrunning) being playable would be a good idea. Runner Vampires, Free Spirits, Grande Zombies (Hey, after Ghouls why not?), Maybe even go wild and have things like Runner Blackberry Cats. This would be in the Shadowrun Companion 4, of course, and probably these races would have to be labelled optional for normal games. But the rules would be available and make a lot of interesting game concepts open up.
I can see avoiding, say, AIs and Great Dragons because they're too rare and their lifestyle is incompatible with running. But for your average species why not? It can't be harder to play than a Dryad and we've seen, for instance, interesting games with vampire PCs right here on Dumpshock. |
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Mar 17 2005, 12:08 AM
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#93
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
May I vote for option three? That is to say, "Pickled, stewed, totally twisted." Seriously, though... In 9 out of 10 games, I play the full magician. Since most of the individual games were in Shadowrun 2nd, and almost all of my time in Shadowrun 3rd has been in one ongoing game, I guess it just slipped by me. |
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Mar 17 2005, 12:19 AM
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#94
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Let me be the first (in this thread at least) to say ... Gods, I hope not!!! :eek: |
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Mar 17 2005, 12:32 AM
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#95
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I wouldn't mind rules for it, so long as they are simple and not a mess like shifters, ghouls and drakes currently are.
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Mar 17 2005, 12:36 AM
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#96
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i think it would be wiser to put in simple rules for NPC critter creation--for instance, just state that the critter stats are racial averages, ergo 3 +racial mods; as well, note how many skill points critters get (3x Int, or whatever). that way, if someone wants to create a blackberry cat character, they have a starting point, but blackberry cat characters are still discouraged by the lack of point-buy costs.
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Mar 17 2005, 06:53 AM
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#97
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
And the beatings. Don't forget the beatings. Those are discouraging, or at least are meant to be. |
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Mar 17 2005, 01:35 PM
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#98
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,009 |
Thank you. 2) Less dragons, less dragon metaplots, less worldspanning magical conspiracies, more cyberpunk/slipstream 3) prejustice against magic I always thought the public would really freak out when a tiny percentage of people develop unknown powers. I wouldn't want anybody to mess with my mind, and I sure as heck wouldn't feel any safer if I knew my neighbour can summon a fire elemental. Where's the paranoia? 4) pictures, pictures, more pictures (guns, vehicles, equipment, panorama) 5) a consistent rules set for close combat (riddle of steel did a decent job for example) better decking rules (skill-based) new rules for auto-fire, more deadly combat system. OK, it's a long list but the more I write the better the chance some of it gets true, non? ;) |
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Mar 17 2005, 05:03 PM
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#99
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Who ever came up with the name slipstream for a fucking genre of fiction was an ass and an idiot. Not only does it sound lame, but it automatically pigeon holes the work into a tiny crap filled shelf in the sci-fi genre. Just like cyberpunk did. There's no quicker way to kill a movement than to give it a stupid name. Not to mention that all the stuff from it I've read is world spanning contrived conspiracies, just like crapperpunk.
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Mar 18 2005, 09:50 AM
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#100
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,009 |
Whoa, calm down, breathe slowly. Everything's going to be okay. It's just human nature to put a tag with a name on everything. If it's a good or bad name, I don't care. It's just a way to define a bunch of works which have similar concepts in common.
Maybe you just read the wrong books, or you're prone to overgeneralizations? |
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