Shadowrun v4.0: The hard numbers., How much does it cost? And more... Options

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

I have only gamed online. Ever. When I started gaming on SL over a decade ago, I gave up trying to deal with local gamers--something that became easier when I started buying books online and the local gaming stores dwindled from 3 to 1. I also made the decision, based mostly on the fact that I am antisocial to never, ever meet anyone I met online, talk to them on the phone, or divulge much of my identity to anyone online ever for any reason. SLers know my first name. Less than a handful know my last name. Few know what state I'm in, fewer still the city, most don't know what I do, and I've been even more intentionally vague here, and AFAIK not a single person knows what I look like. It helps me keep peace of mind. The moment any of that got out to, say, DS... *poof* I'm gone.

But at the same time, I don't like gamers, and I don't like the kind of gamers that cons attract. I don't socialize with people who are gamers, into sci-fi, fantasy, or basically anything that every other SR player I know at least has a passing interest in. Most people IRL don't know I game, and the few that don't ask too many questions. If I could go to GenCon to pick up my book, watch some people I know tourney in peace, and listen to any secrets of SR lectures in peace then I would. Unfortunately, by its very nature I have to deal with a metric ton of people who drive me fucking nuts whenever I have to deal with them IRL. No thanks.

[Garland]

Wow, and I thought I didn't much care for people...

[Nikoli]

Ouch

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

You have no idea.

[Adam]

[Penta]

Um, define affordable, Adam. Please.

[mfb]

'sides, i wouldn't think the freelancers are involved in the pricing at all. even Rob might not be directly involved in that decision, depending on how FanPro runs things and how their contract with the printers works.

[Charon]

D&D new books were quite affordable. Don't remember the exact price, but it didn't put too big a dent in my wallet.

Of course, AD&D was higher profile than SR is and so had a wider audience. Which means the possibility to do larger printing without too high a risk to get stuck with tons of book. Which drives down cost per unit. It was a gamble publishing so many books and lowering the cost but it seems to have paid off handsomely.

But the biggest success of D&D 3e was bringing back ex-player (like me, who was playing... well... SR at the time) and new players. And that was in large part due to an excellent marketing campaign in the months leading up to the release. It made me remember the things I liked about D&D and made me want to play again. And buy a few hundred dollars worth of their product.

Part of this campaign included the best art D&D had seen in a long time with a new look that was edgy and attractive. And there was a lot of teaser to get the crowd fired up. A lot. With all the tidbits that were out, I played a proto D&D 3e campaign that reached level 10 and wrapped up when the book finally came out! And I wasn't too off base, either. Finally, ultimate success came down to the fact that when 3e hit the shelves, it turned out to be a huge improvement over AD&D. The word of mouth from those who bought to those who hadn't did wonder for sales. Everyone but the most hardcore of the old timers agreed on that.

So here's to hoping the marketing department at FANPRO and the artists for the new project do a bang up job. To a lot of teasers. To a final product that is indeed a better system than the old one. And to low cost on the book and high volume on the sales. Cheers.

[mfb]

the WotC marketing machine is an amazing thing, especially in regards to their website--i hope FanPro takes a few pages from their book (which it seems they are, with the upcoming devblog). WotC puts the synopsis out months ahead of time, of course; everybody does that. but then, a month or so out, they start posting articles about the book. you'll see all of the interior art for that book posted on the website, a month out, along with an interview of someone involved in the book. two weeks or so out, you get an excerpt from the book--a big excerpt, with rules and everything. when a d20 book comes out, not only do you know whether or not you want it, you have a solid idea of what's in it.

that's a really, really big part of why d20 books do so well.

[Nikoli]

Actually, from what I recall, they almost took a loss on the core books for 3rd and 3.5 because the later books are where the money is.

They barely make any money at all on them, hence why the setting books are more expensive than the core books individually.

[mfb]

heh. that, too.

[Charon]

[Toa]

I'd like to point to the case of the new Ars Magica 5th Edition. They sold it (~256 pages, two-color printed, hardcover) for $25 for the first month as an introductionary price, and as far as has been mentioned went damn well with it. Of course this is mainly a course a rather unknown RPG would take - but it might turn out positive for Shadowrun, too. (I'm not talking about $25 per se, but about a temporary lower introductionary price as an incentive.)

[Paul]

I'm not asking Adam (Thanks by the way to you and Synner.) to define affordable is fair.

[Adam]

Without being rude -- comparing WotCs pricing decisions to any other RPG company is being pretty damned unfair to every other RPG company. WotC is anywhere from 60-75% of the RPG market themselves, depending on who you ask, and they're a company of hundreds owned by one of the largest toy companies in the world. They are on their own playing field, and they have to worry far less about competing with other RPG companies than those other companies do.

As for "affordable", I'm not directly involved in the pricing decisions, but I don't see the book being more than $40 for the hardcover, and I think $35 is more likely.

[Arethusa]

That's a fair point, but I have been curious what the effect would be if SR4 launched with an aggressive price structure (in this case, a relatively cheap core book— say, $20-25— while maintaining a level of professional design comparable or superior to DnD/D20) in order to break into the market currently heavily dominated by WotC. That, is of, course, more idle musing than any serious consideration of the RPG market.

[Steadfast]

Pardon me, the following is just IMO, but thats not how it works. As stated before, the marketing machine is unbeleivable with WotC. So, price is not everything, there a whole lot of rather cheap but nonetheless nice Books out there, and those take the big hit either.
See, the D20 license is so vast and in use, you can't scratch a dent in it, if you sell yourself out with ceap but high quality rpgs. What one needs is a large fan base promoting the game and actively playing it and thus geting more ppl. into playing the same game as you do. Thats about the only thing there is to it. Annyway, as said before, I also think that there is no sense in comparing the two companies, well, hopefully, not yet ;)

So, Basically the pricing estimated by adam is seriously a happymaker in my book, because the price seems reasonabe, even if it turns out to be 45 Bucks, I'd still say the same.
If the book holds up to what the promotion is trying to sell.

regards
Daniel, @ work

[Penta]

I think, personally, $40 would be my limit for SR4.

I would happily pay ~$20 for a normal book. $25 would be hard to pull off.

$30 would just not be happening.

Personally, though, I could get by if the normal books were the same paperback as the previous editions. They kept up pretty well. Just work on binding quality.

(For the record: I'm in college. I spend no more than $40 on pizza, my one luxury (since SR isn't really stocked round here), in a semester. Please don't make me spend as much on gaming as I do on food.:-))

[Salvation122]

[Eyeless Blond]

Well there's always the evil empire--I mean Amazon. :D

[Salvation122]

Last time I looked they were saying it'd ship within three months, which wasn't really a timeframe I felt comfortable with.

[mfb]

amazon isn't a company i feel comfortable dealing with, period. too much hassle.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Go with Stiggybaby's or, well, anyone else.

[Adam]

FanPro hopes to have a much better online store available before the summer.