A playtester's point of view of SR4, Or, why you won't read that on Dumpshock Options

[otaku mike]

I'm Mikael Brodu, Writer, mapmaker and playtester for Shadowrun since my first stunt in Shadow of Europe.
After reading so many threads from people concerned about the future of SR, in particular about SR4, and so many questions directed to the people in the know like me, I felt the urge to reply something. You'll probably not be fully satisfied with the answer, but I think you guys deserve something more than a complete radio silence.

SR4 has been in the works for some time now. I just learnt about it only a couple of days before the public announcement. It was a very well guarded secret, and only a handful of freelancers and playtesters knew about it (though many freelancers suspected something was going on when we read what System Failure would be about).
I'm not privy to the developpers' discussion group, so I don't know the latest developments in the design of the rules. What I've read so far are only the drafts that have been given to the playtesters.
Of course, I can't say anything about the rules. But I can tell you 2 important things: first, the press release about streamlining and integrating the rules is not a vain promise, the rules really are better in my opinion; secondly, the rules are not set in stone yet, they're still subject to change through playtesting, so even if I decided to breach my NDA, you'd have no guarantee that the things I could tell you now are going to make it into the final rulebook.

This second point is very important for you to understand. SR4 is still an ongoing process, though in an advanced stage, of writing and playtesting.
Please don't complain about it before you actually read it. I can assure you that many of the issues I've seen raised on this forum are being addressed, while most of the others became moot points due to rules overhaul at a higher level.
Please also understand that it's useless to ask questions like "how much is it going to cost?" or "what are the new rules?" or "how the new Matrix works?" at this point. We can't answer because of many reasons, the first being the NDA, but also simply because we still don't have definitive answers to offer or because it's too early.

What you can do is post ideas and suggestions. And I've seen there are already a lot of them posted. Freelancers don't post too often, and will probably post even less about SR4, as it tends to foster strong emotional responses from the fans, and every word we post has the potential to be interpreted in the wrong way (especially mine, as a non native speaker/writer). We don't post much, but many of us read the forums. I'd wager that many rule changes coming in SR4 have been at least partly initiated by comments/complaints on Dumpshock.

Trust us to make SR4 as good as it deserves to be. If you liked the latest releases, you should know by now that the game is in good and capable hands. Be assured that we love the game just as much as you do, and we don't want to screw it.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

I would like to specifically single out Wireknight's ideas for you to consider and pass around if you like them. They are some of the best ideas I've seen for SR in a long time, and I think that upon inspection you and the others might agree.

[mintcar]

Very nice of you to give some kind of response, even though it didn´t say much. A bit of reasuring words never hurt in a situation like this.

[craigpierce]

[Lady Anaka]

People are looking, do look, and have been looking. Writers and developers just don't tell you about it, in large part because doing so pretty much voids any useful impartial observer mojo they have on their side. The other reason, of course, is that no matter how good a single idea is, if it doesn't mesh well with the whole, it won't be used. Suggestions are surely welcome, though.

[Nikoli]

The most reassuring thing is that the ruleset isn't set in stone yet.

That gives me hope that some of the things that get suggested here might help make for a better game.

[Blackout]

Being that I work for a gaming company I greatly appreciate the fact that mike took the time to even post up on the new SR4 and I look forward to seeing it first hand. To me Fanpro has done great job with Shadowrun and they have my full trust in keeping with the ways. This year GenCon will be hard to wait for with a great release like SR4. Good luck to everyone that is helping out with the new upgrades.

[Critias]

Sort of on topic here (and hopefully, Mike, you can at least tell us about this) -- are there any big exciting plans about the release itself yet? A big hooplah about it at Gencon, I mean? Are there gonna be staff-run games featuring the SR4 rules, playtest stuff set up at the vendor's booth, seminars/talks given by developers or playtesters, a big party, anything like that?

Or is it just gonna be all, "Hey, I just remembered reading something six months ago at DS. The SR4 book is in that booth over there. I'll go buy it," or something?

[Blackout]

A release party would be a blast!

[Critias]

S'what I'm talkin' about. I think any/all of the above would be great.

I'd love to run through a game or two with a developer or playtester running it for me to get a grip on the new rules. I'd dig a big party (D&D got one last year!), even if it's a semi-official affair that's just a bunch of Shadowrun geeks hanging out flipping through their new books and occasionally shouting "Ooh, ooh, check out page 212! And pass the peanuts!" I think some sort of seminar/talk from the dev team would be a great chance for some of us, a Q & A session basically, to get all our hot topics ironed out and to have someone go over the big changes with us.

I mean, I know I'm gonna be at Gencon. I know SR 4 is gonna be at Gencon. I know it'd be cool if it was a big deal at Gencon, like it deserves to be. In the d20 boom-or-bust world we're dealing with in the last five years or so, Shadowrun's remained a staple of my RPG diet from the first time I thumbed through it in, like, '91. It's got admirable longevity and (obviously) a fairly strong (or at least fanatical) following. We're gonna be at the world's biggest/best geek and gaming Con. Let's ham it up a little, and get our baby the spotlight it deserves.

And I doubt I'm the only one thinkin' that way.

[SirBedevere]

Yes, thanks for posting Mike. One thing that I would be interested in, is how backwards compatible SR4 will be with SR3 particularly vehicles. I've designed several vehicles/drones using Rigger 3. Will I have to completely redesign them or will I just have to tweak them a bit?

The big question is: how many books will we need to buy before we get a SR4 character as detailed as SR3? :?

[Cray74]

Well, all told, SR4 seems to be having an easier time than CBT's upcoming Jihad storyline.

That's had several years with no immediate information, just pictures of what the outcome will be (via the click base MWDA game), and the fans have been in arms over the partial glimpses of the Jihad.

It looks like FanPro learned from the Jihad experience and is keeping SR4 more "open" with the development log.

[Ol' Scratch]

Hopefully, they didn't concern themselves at all with backwards-compability. That's a horrible crutch to have when working to create a brandnew system from scratch, and one I'd rather not see at all... especially considering that it's only useful for the first few months of people moving on to the new edition.

Keep your backgrounds, descriptions, and other fluff write-ups and just rebuild them from the ground up using the new rules. Those are what most people actually care about anyway, as anyone can throw together a bunch of stats. You'll be happier (and more consistant with the new rules) in the long run that way, too.

I'll be extremely disappointed if even a single page is wasted on that sort of thing, as it was in the 2nd and 3rd edition sourcebooks. Totally useless pages that could have been used for something better.

[Critias]

I disagree completely. I can't think of any reason they shouldn't put a few pages in there for converting over existing characters to the new system.

[Fortune]

I agree with Doc Funk. The new rules system doesn't need to be hampered by trying to force compatability with all the previous mechanics. It would be counter-productive.

Those people that truly need such help in adapting their characters would be better served with a page or two on shadowrunrpg.

[mfb]

i think char conversion rules are okay, but i also think that compatibility should not be an issue when they're forming the SR4 rules. the char conversion rules should be added on at the end, once the rules are finished, rather than being considered during the process of creation.

regardless, even if there are conversion rules, i'm probably going to just rebuild all my chars from the ground up. i hate fixing things; burning them down and building over them is much easier, for me.

[GunnerJ]

Just put char-conversion on the web page for free and not in the main book.

[Pistons]

So far as GenCon hoopla for SR4 is concerned:

* There are plans in the works for demo games.
* There's been a "What's Up With Shadowrun" seminar every year, so likely this year will be largely devoted to SR4.
* As for parties... dunno. I'm sure Rob's got some ideas, but because we're focusing on writing and playtesting at this time, they're probably tucked away in the back of his head somewhere for now. :)
* Stay tuned to the website for any further plans and updates.

I'm tentatively planning on being at GC this year, and I am definitely going to be at Origins, so it's entirely possible I'd run or take part in a game. We'll see.

[Fortune]

[otaku mike]

Thanks for thanking me guys. Unfortunately, as I said in my intitial message, I won't discuss rules, even backward compatibility, because that would still involve giving info on SR4 rules in an indirect way. I'm truly sorry. I hope you can understand my position.
As Pistons said, stay tuned to the official website (or Dumpshock, as it seems every new bit of info is relayed here in less than the legendary nanosecond :) )

[Nikoli]

Well that whole unconnected in any way to the Official site thing and all....

[Pistons]

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Hmm, Podcasting Gencon...

[Adam]

I taped it a couple years, and someone did last year, but I'm not sure what happened to it.

[Fortune]

I knew that at least one year was taped and made available. It probably wasn't an 'official' endeavor though. None-the-less, with a subject of this scale, it might be worth considering.

Adam: What are your thoughts on the matter? Do you think this is something that could be arranged, and maybe hosted on the official site?