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> Opinion? Yeah, I got one..., (I can't believe they're doing this)
Granite_Devil
post Mar 24 2005, 03:48 AM
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I actually like *everything* about SR3.

Most especially:

I *like* the Matrix and...

I *like* cyberdecks.

I DO NOT LIKE THIS.

FanPro can get f'ck'n bent, as can all who have anything to do with this abominable incarnation of the rules, as can anyone who wants me to take my bitching elsewhere.

...good gods, people...

(SIDEBITCH: They'll take the f'ck'n time to revamp the goddamn rules, but they won't take the f'ck'n time to reprint f'ck'n Sprawl Sites.)

Ohmygod. I wish I could just open-handed slap the party responsible for this.

.|.. ..|.

(look at those as middle fingers and go f'ck yourselves)
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 24 2005, 04:03 AM
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QUOTE
I actually like *everything* about SR3.

So, you should be all set then, right? All the books, all the memories. It's some nice closure for you. FanPro saving you a bunch of money since you won't have to buy any more books for something that's perfect.

And Sprawl Sites? Serisouly, Sprawl Sites? Dude, try e-bay: It's for sale

Be sure to vote in the poll, while you're at it.
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Sepherim
post Mar 24 2005, 04:10 AM
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Kanada is right on that one. What problem is there? Just keep on developing your own game world, you should have more than enough info/plothooks/etc for more campaigns that you can probably run during a normal life, so no problem there. And, if you want to keep up on the background, just buy the new background stuff, and use SR3 rules with them. No?
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Adam
post Mar 24 2005, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (Granite_Devil)
Ohmygod. I wish I could just open-handed slap the party responsible for this.

Are you going to be at GenCon, by any chance? How about Origins?

We can make arrangements.
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Nikoli
post Mar 24 2005, 04:11 AM
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Adam, please oh please, get a video if this happens and host it here.
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Black Mamba
post Mar 24 2005, 04:32 AM
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I agree with Devil. I've been playing SR since 1990 and with each subsequent edition I have become less interested in the product line. SR2 was a major improvement to a convuluted rule system, but the diminishing presence of artwork compromised the feel of the 6th world. SR3 streamlined the matrix rules, but took the world in a cheesy-ass direction with the "Comet."
I recognize and appreciate the need for change in order to maintain a lucrative position in the economy. I just don't understand where the original fans of the game factor in, if at all. When I read the notice about 4th ed. on the SR site I just about puked. I truly hope the guys in charge of the SR line know what they're doing. As for me, I think I've had my fill of revisions to SR.
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Granite_Devil
post Mar 24 2005, 04:36 AM
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Sure.

But then I could also just anticipate, say, SR5 and redux the rules all on my own:

Abolish ALL skills and spells and rely only on Pools to accomplish everything based on a difficulty rating!

MAGEGUY: I wanna raise a volcano in the middle of Downtown Seattle and cause it to erupt, killing EVERYBODY!!!

GM: Fine. Difficulty 52. Roll your Magic Pool Dice.

TECHGUY: I wanna use that man-portable full-auto railgun/laser that doesn't need any ammo!

GM: Fine. Difficulty 20. Roll your Combat Pool Dice.

DECKERHACKERSCRIPTKIDDIEWHATEVERGUY: I wanna hack the NSA/CIA/Whatever-A DBase and find out if aliens really exist! And if Damien Knight is really Dunkelzahn! And I wanna drop a worm into Zurich Orbital!

GM: Fine. Difficulty 16, 23, and... 92. Roll your Hacking Pool Dice.

Bunny-hop your bicycle? Diff 3.
Shoot that pistol? Diff 3.
Hairpin turn at 170? Diff 8.
Fly a helicopter? Diff 9.

ARBITRARY DIFFICULTY RATINGS FOR *EVERYTHING* MWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

WAITAMINUTE! Why don't we just scrap the whole stupid dice system too? Just leave it up the the GM to decide, or resort to a "Guess The Number I'm Thinking" method to resolve those hairy debates like whether or not Ghost Walker dies because you hit him in the sweet spot with that Light Pistol?

No? No. We'll probably see that in SR8 when every character is really an incarnated AI and they all look like Damien Knight. Of course, then the dice rolling method will be exchanged in favor of the "If You Can't Do It In Real Life, Then You Can't Do It In Shadowrun Either" method.

GUNGUY: [player pulls out his Desert Eagle] I wanna shoot COMPUTERGUY!

GM: Go for it.

*BANG!*

COMPUTERGUY: Ow!

GM: He's still alive, GUNGUY!

*BANG!*
*BANG!*
*BANG!*
...
...
...
...
*BANG!*

GM: Hey, GUNGUY, what was that last shot for?

GUNGUY: Just makin' sure, is all. Hey, can I take a trophy?

GM: Whatever, man, if you can cut it - or rip it - off, you can have it!

[an aside: the Sprawl Sites comment was semi-serious. I mean, c'mon, maps? Why the frig NOT? And I've had a total of 4 experiences purchasing over the internet. 3 were with e-bay and those were the bad ones. Not joking. And, no, in all honesty, this thing doesn't bring me any comfort at all.]

Grrr. Grrr, I say!
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Granite_Devil
post Mar 24 2005, 04:38 AM
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At Adam:

Why? Are you the one responsible, or do you simply wish to see me actually slap whoever is?
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Adam
post Mar 24 2005, 04:39 AM
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Sprawl Sites, incidentally, will be made available as an ebook. In the meantime, Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book has a lot of similar content - short plot hooks, locations, and NPCs.

Edit: I was one of the people involved in early SR4 meetings, and I've contributed a little to the book, and will hopefully contribute more as the line continues to grow. But mostly, I just want to see if you're willing to back up what you say, when you know very little about what will be in SR4 and are going on a pure emotional response to the sparse statements that have been released.

This post has been edited by Adam: Mar 24 2005, 04:41 AM
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Arethusa
post Mar 24 2005, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (Granite Devil)
mmmmpfmmmrrraarrrmpfffppmmpmfpfmmmmmfffppff

Ah. You know, I've been waiting for this for years. Real mental illness.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 24 2005, 04:59 AM
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QUOTE
I just don't understand where the original fans of the game factor in, if at all.

I think that's the ultimate question. We can start with where you think [they] should fit in? Or rather, what products could FanPro offer to someone who's seen it all since 1st?

I'm not sure what this 4th hate is all about; if you haven't liked the direction how does it matter if they call it a new edition or keeping making books for 3rd? And if you have liked the direction, then this should be a leap in the right direction. If you're happy with 3rd edition, then you literally have everything needed to keep playing it for years and years.

I fully expect that I will play SR3 for at least 2 more years, and maybe more, before I really consider buying the next edition, but that doesn't mean better rules and a coherent technology will be a bad thing for anyone.
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Granite_Devil
post Mar 24 2005, 05:02 AM
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First, does it really matter if I'd follow through?

Second, not that my emotional state is anybody's concern (ooooh, hold the phone folks, jeez, we almost pissed off some guy on a forum) but it WOULD be better if we ALL had more than just 'sparse statements' to go on...

... more information never hurts.
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Granite_Devil
post Mar 24 2005, 04:55 AM
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And the doc says I'm doing much better now, by the way, so can the 'psycho' remarks.
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Fortune
post Mar 24 2005, 05:07 AM
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QUOTE (Black Mamba)
I just don't understand where the original fans of the game factor in, if at all.

As a fan of Shadowrun since the day it hit the shelves in '89, all I can say is don't presume to speak for all the original fans of Shadowrun. The vast majority I have spoken to are definitely looking forward to the new edition.
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Kanada Ten
post Mar 24 2005, 05:08 AM
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QUOTE
First, does it really matter if I'd follow through?

It might just be the first case of someone backhanding up what they say on the internet. First steps to augmented reality; naturally we want to see it happen...
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Adam
post Mar 24 2005, 05:06 AM
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QUOTE
First, does it really matter if I'd follow through?


Well, yeah. I can understand discontent -- but threats of physical violence, over a game that you haven't even seen yet? That's a little over the top, no?

QUOTE
Second, not that my emotional state is anybody's concern (ooooh, hold the phone folks, jeez, we almost pissed off some guy on a forum) but it WOULD be better if we ALL had more than just 'sparse statements' to go on...


Absolutely. And that's why FanPro plans to publish weekly updates about SR4. By the time the book is ready and you're able to put down your money for it, you should have more than enough material to decide if SR4 is worth buying on it's own merits.
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Critias
post Mar 24 2005, 05:31 AM
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QUOTE (Granite_Devil)
Blah blah blah, I'm crazy!

I'm just curious, here, but where are you...where are you even getting that your insane little rant has anything at all to do with the changes they're making in the game? You're making shit up and then complaining about the shit you just made up (and doing so in an extremely annoying fashion). What makes you think you've got any idea at all what you're talking about?
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Charon
post Mar 24 2005, 05:42 AM
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Well, see, it works that way :

"I know am talking"

"Words are coming out of my mouth."

"I know what are the words that are coming out of my mouth."

"Therefore it follows that I know what I am talking about."

Logical, huh?
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Bull
post Mar 24 2005, 05:46 AM
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Just a reminder. Keep it civil. You don't have to like SR4, you can hate it all you want, but be civil in here.

Once again warnings were issued.

Bull
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Sandoval Smith
post Mar 24 2005, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE (Charon)
Well, see, it works that way"

"I know am talking"

"Words are coming out of my mouth."

"I know what are the words that are coming out of my mouth."

"Therefore it follows that I know what I am talking about."

Logical, huh?

That's the charming thing about when a rant really gets going, especially when the writer really gets themselves worked up. Reality really has no bearing on anything coming out of there mouths.

Ah, the nostalgia. It's just like those fondly remembered days of yore on the gaming message boards when the advent of D&D 3.0 was announced.
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CirclMastr
post Mar 24 2005, 07:51 AM
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"omg me2"

Apparently the Great Lord Arethusa, who dictates who may post what, prefers this. :please:
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Arethusa
post Mar 24 2005, 07:54 AM
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You know what really rocks? Having a joke explained to me. Nothing makes wit better than witlessly breaking it open and pounding it into my head.
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Synner
post Mar 24 2005, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (Black Mamba @ Mar 24 2005, 04:32 AM)
SR3 streamlined the matrix rules, but took the world in a cheesy-ass direction with the "Comet."

Several recent posters seem to have missed the fact that there's been 3+ years of developments and material for SR3 actually under FanPro (rather than FASA) which have actually been pretty well-received (if the opinions of Dumpshock's more than slightly opinionated crowd are anything to go by) and seen as a step in the right direction.

Maybe taking a look at the direction current books have been taking would give you a better idea of where SR4 is going rather than looking back at early SR3 when neither FanPro nor most of the current developers were calling the shots.
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mfb
post Mar 24 2005, 09:30 AM
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yeah, see. the guys who came up with the basic concepts used in YotC? they're not in charge of SR anymore. you really can't blame the current crop of writers for the horrid sins of their forefathers.
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Synner
post Mar 24 2005, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (Granite_Devil @ Mar 24 2005, 03:48 AM)
I actually like *everything* about SR3.
Most especially:
I *like* the Matrix and...
I *like* cyberdecks.

Good for you, I do too - it's one of the reasons I took the time to run the Idiot's Guide to the Matrix thread (and before anyone asks yes there will be a new one for the new Matrix). However I for one understand it puts us in the vast minority of current SR players.
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