 Decking versus Hacking, The change is not needed |
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 Mar 29 2005, 08:35 PM
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#101
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Moving Target  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960  |
I also the term "hackers" being used unwittingly to recruit the worst sort of AD&Ders into SR. "Dude it's sooo cool we can play l33t h4xorzz!"
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Mar 29 2005, 09:24 PM
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#102
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 239 Joined: 10-February 04 Member No.: 6,068 |
The point about language evolution is disproved in Solstice's first sentence. Even though many people use "your", it is still unacceptable and wrong. Sorry Solstice, I couldn't resist. :D Doc F, and Kanada, I would have argued on your side that language evolves, even though, like Solstice and others I don't like how "Hacker" has evolved. What about the word SPAM. It has certainly evolved a new meaning in the last 10 years. I think that the old school guys who would call ourselves "Hackers" by the old definition should maybe choose and even older word to change it's meaning, "Wizards". :D Or maybe we should spell it "Wizzard" in sequins. Anyway, back on topic, I would preffer Decker, myself for SR, just because it sets SR appart slightly and it's traditional. |
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Mar 29 2005, 09:42 PM
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#103
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that hardly disproves anything. society at large still views that usage of "your" as incorrect, therefore it remains incorrect. society at large views the word "hacker" as referring to someone who does illegal things with computers, therefore that is a correct definition. SCSI was originally intended to be pronounced "sexy". is it incorrect to pronounce it "scuzzy", because of that? no. once a word is introduced into common circulation, the inventor of that word loses any ownership of it that he may have had. his intentions for usage, pronounciation, and everything else don't really matter--what matters is how people use what he created.
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Mar 29 2005, 09:58 PM
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#104
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
The views of the majority of society aren't relevent to the correctness of a term that identifies a group.
Before I get jumped all over for that one.. 'Warlock', to a lot of people (I don't have the statistics) is means 'male witch'. Most witches I know, male and female, know that the term originally meant 'Oathbreaker', and don't accept it. It's an insult, and incorrect, and the ignorance of society at large doesn't change that. It's a fairly extreme example, but in the more general case, it's the views of those in society who know what they're talking about that matter. If you have a society that's 99% ignorant of science, 'magic' still isn't the correct term for why radios work. Just like 'magic smoke' isn't what makes electronics work. |
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Mar 29 2005, 09:53 PM
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#105
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
malarky. it's incorrect, if you're a witch. i'm not a witch, and i gives a damn what witches think about the term (i'm not one, so why would i?). i'm a D&D player; to me, a warlock is a class that uses magic without casting spells. if i know somebody is a witch? sure, i'll avoid calling them a warlock, because it's an insult. that's just polite. but i'm not wrong for using the term to refer to a male witch, or a spell-less magic user, or anything else that society at large decides to apply the term to. i'm just not using the witches' definition. words can have multiple meanings and usages.
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Mar 29 2005, 10:29 PM
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#106
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
Yes, but do we really have to sink to the level of "the other game", and use incorrect terms to define one of the most important group of SR characters.
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Mar 29 2005, 10:45 PM
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#107
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
which completely misses the argument that it isn't an incorrect term, unless you're part of a specific subset of general society.
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Mar 29 2005, 10:52 PM
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#108
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Which has a nontrivial overlap with the small specific subset of general society that is in the market for RPGs.
~J |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:02 PM
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#109
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,709 |
I am 100% in favor of the name change, and in fact would go further, and suggest that the name of the very game be changed. Shadowrun is sort of old-fashioned and silly anyway.
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Mar 29 2005, 11:09 PM
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#110
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Yeah, let's call it Shadowrun XP. Much more modern.
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Mar 29 2005, 11:34 PM
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#111
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
How about "Runner of the Shadows.Exe.uk.co"? That sounds modern. How about "L33t hacksor"? Yea, that's what deckers should be called, "L33t". Decking = L33t1ng, Decker = L33t3r, not to be confused with liter. |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:31 PM
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#112
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
not really. if that were true, the average gamer would have much, much less problem with the Matrix rules. |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:31 PM
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#113
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
You do know the other usage for the word "cracker" don't you? -Siege |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:38 PM
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#114
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
Having any knowledge of computer-related terminology doesn't automatically enable you to understand a rather complex and impractical ruleset that is based of a fictional universe. The truth is that many RPG-fans know what "hacker" really means, and using it faultily is something a publisher of an RPG should consider very carefully, to avoid insulting a fanbase consisting of nerds that hate incorrect usage of terms they are proud to know the true meaning of. |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:40 PM
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#115
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
And what will the true meaning of hacking be in 65 years?
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Mar 29 2005, 11:52 PM
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#116
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
Yes I am aware. Your point? This is less an argument over the meaning of a word and more a debate about who dictates what a word means. If the entire US legislates that the animal "cat" will now be referred to as "dog". Everyone in the US henceforth refers to a cat as a dog. Does that make the cat a dog? No. Does that change the correct usage of the word? It does not. Does that cause considerable confusion and consternation? It most assuredly does. Myself and my entire group of friends can begin referring to ourselves as "hackers" because we use an IP spoofer. Does this make us "hackers" because we refer to this activity as such? No the term is still incorrect, nor are we "crackers". The definition or correctness of a term is not dictated by the amount people using it in whatever manner they wish. |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:54 PM
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#117
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it will be that special time of year when families and friends come together to share exploits and swap viruses.
that's hardly "the truth", overlegen. while understanding of real-world computers does not automatically engender understanding of SR's Matrix rules, it does tend to engender interest in them, which often leads to understanding. and while there may be more computer nerd RPGers than, say, football jock RPGers, that still doesn't mean that any significant portion of the RPGer population is made up of computer nerds who know and care about the origin and "correct" meaning of any given term. |
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Mar 29 2005, 11:56 PM
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#118
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
There are more RPg fans that will be annoyed at the incorrect use of the term than there are RPGers that will become die-hard fans of SR4 due to the name change.
Wich is another reason why changing the name is ridiculous. |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:09 AM
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#119
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
sure about that? what about the ones who don't know what the hell a "decker" is and don't care, but get attracted because they do know what a "hacker" is, and are interested in playing one?
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Mar 30 2005, 12:10 AM
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#120
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960 |
See my above post at the top of the page. |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:22 AM
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#121
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I have to agree with Solstice. The "I can't be bothered to read the blurb on the back of the book but I know I like hackers" crowd is not a desirable market segment.
~J |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:34 AM
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#122
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
If their cash is good, they're desirable enough for corporate.
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Mar 30 2005, 12:28 AM
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#123
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not that simple. I am assuming that they are less likely to buy all of the add-ons (which given my experience with the type is accurate), but there are segments that it is undesirable to prioritize.
~J |
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Mar 30 2005, 12:37 AM
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#124
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Resident Legionnaire Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,136 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Usually Work Member No.: 6,550 |
That could well be true. I don't actually know any of those (that I know of). I really don't see the need for changing it from Decker to Hacker. Hacker just sounds incredibly cheesy to me. Hell, I think they'd still be called deckers just because that's what the world is familiar with.
Bodyboards are still called "boogie-boards" by lots of people, even though no bodyboard company in their right mind would still refer to their boards as such anymore. |
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Mar 30 2005, 01:22 AM
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#125
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i was about to say the same thing in response to the argument presented by you and Solstice. there are a hell of a lot of games out there; it's not just the idiots that don't have time to read the back of every gaming book they come across. |
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