 Decking versus Hacking, The change is not needed |
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 Mar 28 2005, 06:11 PM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960  |
If it's used as a 'rulebook word' to describe 'techy' types then that is a different issue and one I don't have a problem with. If it's being used in the fiction and fluff to describe what we once knew as 'deckers' than I think that is a bad idea. Of course they don't care what I think. 8) |
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Mar 28 2005, 09:04 PM
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#52
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
I think you misunderstood Mr. Goodman. We know you arn't getting rid of the function of Deckers. But it is the name that is going (presumably along with Rigging). That is what the protest and the poll is for. We want the name to persist. We don't like the monicker "hacking" or "hacker". We like Decking and Decker. So what were asking you, and the people who are writing the book to do is go back through and fix it. Get rid of the Hacker terminolgy, and go back to the way it was, Deckers and Riggers. Change the rules however you want, just leave the NAMES intact. That's what were asking for. Were asking for the flavor text to reamin the same. I honestly don't understand why you (being the devs) felt the need to change it in the first place. Rules yes, change them all you want. Leave the terms and terminology alone please. |
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Mar 28 2005, 09:27 PM
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#53
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Flawed poll, there should be a "Doesn't affect me either way in any way I can care about"
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Mar 28 2005, 09:39 PM
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#54
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
The poll is not flawed. Nobody is standing at the door holding a gun to your head making you choose. If the choice isn't relevant to you DON'T TAKE IT. If you don't care how it turns out, don't vote. I don't understand why this simple idea is so hard for people to grasp. You are the third person to say the poll is flawed because it doesn't have a don't care option. Well guess what, if you don't care I don't want to hear your opinion, so stay the hell out of the thread you seemingly don't care about! |
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Mar 28 2005, 09:42 PM
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#55
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Really, anyone that doesn't care should probably cast their vote for the change, seeing as keeping the name 'Decker' isn't important to them.
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Mar 28 2005, 10:40 PM
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#56
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Really, anyone who doesn't care should vote against the change, because it's the status quo and they don't care :P
~J |
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Mar 28 2005, 10:45 PM
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#57
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I disagree. It has been announced that the change is going to be made, so the default is for the change, as opposed to those that protest against it.
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Mar 28 2005, 10:56 PM
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#58
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
Why do people who don't care even bother clicking the thread?
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Mar 28 2005, 11:12 PM
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#59
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Boredom.
-Siege |
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Mar 28 2005, 11:20 PM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 326 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Vigo (Spanish Kingdom) Member No.: 1,446 |
As far as the system seems to go for better, changing the decker's name to hackers is a pity, though it seems like a logical one. Still, I'd chosen for a new word to be created like "hangers" or whatever.
No particular reason for "hangers" to be OK, it was just an example. :D |
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Mar 28 2005, 11:16 PM
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#61
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Because, despite what the subject line says, threads go off-topic all the time. Even if they didn't, people might still be interested in what others have to say on the subject. |
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Mar 28 2005, 11:47 PM
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#62
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
I give up. It is now abundantly clear that the Devs intend Hackers and Hacking to be the future. I will not now, nor ever agree with this change. It is a fundamental shift in the Shadowrun mythos that I can't tolerate.
I wish to make you understand this has nothing to do with a rules change or a new edition. I am sure the rules for the new edition will be fine. I am sure 4th ed will be great, rules wise. Deckers are to Shadowrun what the very name is. And if the Devs can't see that then they have a completely different idea of what Shadowrun is then I do. In wich case maybe it is time for me to be one of those guys who still plays AD&D. I want to reiterate I have no problem with rules changes. The problem I have has to do with changing the nature of Shadowrun. There is no advantage to changing it all to Hacking. Yet there are plenty of disadvantages. I wish someone from Fanpro would log on and just tell me what the motivation for changing it and why they can't change it back. |
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Mar 28 2005, 11:45 PM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
You know shadow, that pretty much sums up all my feelings on this matter.
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Mar 29 2005, 07:58 AM
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#64
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Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 20-March 05 Member No.: 7,193 |
Shadow, as psykotisk_overlegen said that sums up exactly how I feel. I mean if the term is being used as term Awakened is then I'll let it go, however, if the archetype name has changed then I will fight it to no end. The terms Rigger and Decker are as fundamental to Shadowrun as Hobbit is to the Tolkien universe. Sure you could call them halflings but some how it just looses is luster.
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Mar 29 2005, 08:02 AM
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#65
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
I don't understand why people are so worked up about an official name change. It's not like -- both IC and OOC! -- you can't keep calling them "deckers" without drawing blank stares.
I mean, hell. Look at the name change as a good thing. Now you can look down on all the script-kiddie newbie players who only call them hackers! Whee! An excuse for elitism! And as for the reason for the change? Shit, dude. You shouldn't need someone "from FanPro" to log on and give you a reason for it. Firstly because they don't have to justify anything to a single disgruntled fan, secondarily because it's already been posted and explained on their web site, and thirdly because it's just common sense. They aren't using decks any more, so it doesn't make sense for the game to call them deckers. How hard is that to wrap your head around? |
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Mar 29 2005, 08:08 AM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
Which is exactly what we don't like about it! The new name bites ghoul ass. |
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Mar 29 2005, 08:37 AM
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#67
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Then keep calling them deckers, no one's gonna stop you! People, it's not like we're even talking about a character class, here! There wasn't much hubbub when D&D changed it from "Thief" to "Rogue" for third edition, and that is at least an official name of an official class that's gotta be written on every third page and slapped onto every character sheet. "Decker" or "Rigger" or "Hacker" is a job, a profession, a hobby. An archetype, at best, a skill description more realistically. It's not that big a deal. I've referred to my mundane-but-cyberneticall-augmented-military-trained-shooter-killer-guy by a half dozen different job titles, easily. From razorboy to street sam to merc to just 'shooter.' The classless nature of Shadowland makes the decker/hacker change negligible. It's only as big a deal as you make it. It's like secretaries who get all in a huff and demand to be called professional assistants, or stewardesses changing to flight attendants. If you let it bug you, it bugs you. If you realize it's no big deal, it stays no big deal! |
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Mar 29 2005, 08:44 AM
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#68
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Decker is a slang term. Hacker is a slang term. Street Samurai is a slang term. Slang changes and it changes fairly quickly. That they'd still be using the same term after 20 years would be strange. Of course, Shadowrunner is also a slang term. But, changing that would be silly.
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Mar 29 2005, 09:30 AM
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#69
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It's a branding issue, not just some whim here. They're taking away something clearly identifiable as Shadowrun for no fucking reason. So they don't use decks? Big fucking deal. As the meaning of the word "hacker" as compared to its usage demonstrates, slang pays no attention whatsoever to the fiddling little details like the namesake hardware no longer being in use. Branding is a big deal, and all of your "it doesn't matter" handwaving won't change that. ~J |
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Mar 29 2005, 09:39 AM
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#70
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Well, golly, you used bold and italics at the same time. I can't refute an argument like that.
*shrug* I just don't see how a slang term for a group of people changing is all that big a deal. Neither do the devs. You do (very obviously). Oh well. Guess we disagree. |
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Mar 29 2005, 09:49 AM
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#71
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
:please: Imagine, if you will, little Billy. Billy is a gamer, but unbeknownst to Billy he exists in two separate versions of the world: one in which computer specialists in Shadowrun are called Deckers, one in which they're called Hackers. Billy plays a game of Shadowrun. He plays a decker, and he loves it. Five years pass. He doesn't remember the system, but he remembers his character and how much fun it was. His group is looking to play a new system. Billy pipes up. "Hey, there was this great game I played once. I don't remember what it was called; I played a…" World 1: he says "hacker". The story ends. There's no reasonable way to take that information and determine what game he played. Pretty much any game that has computers in it is a possibility. World 2: he says "decker". Anyone in the group with even a passing familiarity with Shadowrun, anyone who has even read the back of the core book, will recognize the name and be able to identify the system. ~J |
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Mar 29 2005, 09:53 AM
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#72
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Knight Templar Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 212 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Ipswich, UK Just South of the Stinkfens Member No.: 6,424 |
I agree Kagetenshi, it is a branding issue. IMHO FanPro or the developers have changed the name for what they perceive to be good and valid marketing reasons. Therefore I don't expect them to back down over this.
As I said in another post, I don't like the term hacker and I won't be using it in my games, but I think it's a done deal. :( |
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Mar 29 2005, 10:04 AM
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#73
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Okay. You convinced me. You have the right to go on being as righteously indignant on behalf of the kept-down-by-The-Man deckers as you wanna be. You win.
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Mar 29 2005, 10:08 AM
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#74
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Knight Templar Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 212 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Ipswich, UK Just South of the Stinkfens Member No.: 6,424 |
Did Kagetenshi or I convince you? :)
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Mar 29 2005, 10:05 AM
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#75
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Yes.
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