Leonardo's Deck - Dumpshock Forums

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun

2 Pages

< 1 2

Leonardo's Deck, How does it differ to normal decks?

Options

psykotisk_overle... psykotisk_overlegen View Member Profile	Apr 7 2005, 11:34 AM Post #26
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817	Back to the topic on hand. Leos deck is better becuase it was concieved by an IE and everything IEs touch becomes almighty.

mmu1

Apr 7 2005, 11:42 AM

Post #27

Running Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,070
Joined: 7-February 04
From: NYC
Member No.: 6,058

QUOTE (mfb)

without having read the book, i can guess what the problem is: many readers assume that the bent or broken facts are, in fact, factual, which makes them idiots, which generates an idiot-oriented background count around the book itself.

You're wrong, at least to some extent. The major problem with the book is that the author himself (in a note at the beginning of the book) essentially makes the claim that the story, while fictional, is based entirely on real historical evidence, and that all places and orgnisations depicted in it are real - in effect, that he is writing about factual events, and the only fiction are the characters he uses to tell the story.

Ancient History View Member Profile	Apr 7 2005, 12:27 PM Post #28
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	The major problem with the book is that writing's bad, the plot is see-through, and a bunch of ignorant, barely literate idiots made it a Bestseller.

mmu1

Apr 7 2005, 12:40 PM

Post #29

Running Target

Group: Members
Posts: 1,070
Joined: 7-February 04
From: NYC
Member No.: 6,058

QUOTE (Ancient History)

The major problem with the book is that writing's bad, the plot is see-through, and a bunch of ignorant, barely literate idiots made it a Bestseller.

All true, but I was just addressing a specific point.

Vuron

Apr 7 2005, 02:40 PM

Post #30

Moving Target

Group: Members
Posts: 468
Joined: 17-March 05
Member No.: 7,185

QUOTE (Ancient History)

The major problem with the book is that writing's bad, the plot is see-through, and a bunch of ignorant, barely literate idiots made it a Bestseller.

Honestly this is pretty much the case with almost all bestselling thrillers written these days. Now I'm not going to say that Dan Brown's the next best thing since sliced bread because he certainly isn't but I fail to see why people should blame him for basically following the conventions of the genre (cardboard characters, bogus plots, etc) and being successful with it. It's pretty much like going to see a big hollywood action movie and getting pissed when the action and plot are totally unbelievable.

Yes anyone who thinks the book is great literature or scholarship should be beaten but it's definitely a decent example of the genre and what the genre is meant to do (sell pageturners) and to complain that it's inherently bad is a bit of bad form.

However in comparison I'd say Leonardo frustrates the hell out of people because he so patently breaks all the rules for the reality of Shadowrun. One can suspend disbelief about magic and dragons etc and one can even accept that by dint of thier extreme age IEs and dragons pretty much break the rules of magic etc but Leonardo breaks the paradigm by being an IE that's also insanely good at the one area that humanity was best at : Technology. I think that's where Black Madonna and other books referencing Leonardo really fail.

Demosthenes View Member Profile	Apr 7 2005, 02:51 PM Post #31
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850	Yeah, but books about Leonardo don't leave people thinking that the Roman Catholic Church is desperately out to murder the descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdelene...and that Opus Dei is an organisation of incompetent zealot crackpots. [ Spoiler ] They're anything but incompetent or crackpots. And Susannah Clark writes a much better book than Brown...(especially for burglar-stunning purposes...)

DrJest View Member Profile	Apr 7 2005, 04:22 PM Post #32
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,133 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,722	Don't open if you're susceptible to frothing at the mouth over criticism of Catholic organisations. [ Spoiler ] I would question your assertion that Opus Dei are not crackpots, depending on your interpretation of the term. We are, after all, discussing an organisation that: a) Strictly limits the permissible reading/viewing material of its members, requiring them to clear a book or movie with a senior member before reading/watching it. b) Requires "unreserved obedience to whoever is in charge" of Opus Dei, according to Maxim 941 of their code. c) Has supported a number of facist regimes, including Pinochet and (unsubstantiated, based on correspondence exchanged) Franco. d) actively seeks to garner wealth - according to their founder Josemaría Escrivá, "Ask the Lord for money ... but ask him for millions! He owns everything anyway. To ask for five million or 50 million requires just the same effort" - yet at the same time advocates keeping the poor just that - poor. e) And let us not forget the famous "corporal mortiifcation" technique <shudders> I could go on, but I won't. I'd actually heard of Opus Dei before reading DVC, mostly due to the kerfuffle surrounding them - what was it, last year? Year before? - over accusations of brainwashing and kidnap. Whilst many of the accusations against OD have been proven false, there remain a number of indisputable facts that worry me greatly, especially since OD are one of the largest and most influential Church organisations, and likely to swing the vote for the next Pope. Given their fanatically ultra-conservative attitudes, this could spell trouble.

Demosthenes View Member Profile	Apr 7 2005, 04:37 PM Post #33
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850	In spoiler to protect the innocent... [ Spoiler ] Oh, I've no beef with people criticising 'Catholic' organisations - I was educated by Jesuits, and we all know how fond they are of Opus Dei... (What with the whole Liberation Theology and the debacle back in the 80s with the Pope essentially decapitating and emasculating the SoJ because they wanted to put 'the attainment and preservation of justice' as the primary goal of the Society. Apparently serving 'Justice' and serving God are two different things... Point c) "Has supported a number of facist regimes, including Pinochet and (unsubstantiated, based on correspondence exchanged) Franco" applies to many other organisations that are not generally considered crackpot (various US and other governments, for example). 'Crackpot' is a word that I generally apply to organizations that are daft and ineffectual, rather than merely crazy. OD are certainly worrisome, but what really worries me about the church at the moment is that Ratzinger is basically in charge until they elect a new pope...and he really is crazy... So I don't disagree with your interpretation of crackpot. I would question the willingness of OD to go sending assassins off around the world to kill people, however. It's a bit...traceable, I think.

Fygg Nuuton View Member Profile	Apr 8 2005, 11:15 AM Post #34
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 897 Joined: 26-February 02 From: TIME OUT Member No.: 1,989	Leo's deck is big, but not too big. all the ladies (and some men) love his deck i wish my deck was half what his deck is :( i only have a stock deck, but its all in how you use it

« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »

2 Pages

< 1 2

Display Mode: Standard · Switch to: Linear+ · Switch to: Outline

Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

Lo-Fi Version

Time is now: 18th January 2026 - 01:49 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.