Shadowrun 3rd Revised, our backs turned, looking down the path Options

[Kagetenshi]

[Fortune]

I actually agree with sapphire wyvern on this, and have been combining the two skills for years.

[Kagetenshi]

As I said, it'll come into discussion, but it's definitely not a no-brainer. I could be convinced that either it's applicable to both or that there isn't enough of a split to matter.

Decking thread up.

~J

[Cain]

Almost forgot...

For those of you who aren't familiar with my initiative system, I basically run initiative backwards. That is, the count starts from the lowest action, and goes upwards, so the slowest people are give the opportunity to act first. The faster characters then have the option to "seize the initiative" and act before the slower characters' action is resolved.

Here's an example of how it works in play:
Joe Runner and Sally Sammie are facing off with four corp stooges, whom we will call Larry, Moe, Curly, and Shemp. The combat begins, and they roll the following for initiative:

Joe: 22
Sally: 33
Larry: 11
Moe: 8
Curly: 4
Shemp: 14

Round begins: Gamemaster starts counting up. 1, 2, 3... on 4, Curly goes. He declares his actions will be to draw his hold-out and shoot at Sally. Sally decides that this will probably not hurt, and lets him. Curly does his action, and fails to hurt Sally.

Count continues: 5, 6, 7... on 8, Moe declares that he's going to fire a burst from his SMG at Joe. Joe thinks that could hurt a lot, and so he decides to seize the initiative from Moe, and responds by firing his shotgun. Moe dies, and Joe is safe. His new initiative is 12.

9, 10, 11... Larry, after seeing Joe do all the damage, declares that he will fire a burst at Joe. Once again, Joe decides that will be too painful, and seizes again. He gives Larry a serious wound, and thanks to that, Larry misses. Joe's new initiative is 2.

On 14, Shemp also decides to target Joe. The problem is, Shemp is packing a shotgun as well. Joe can't seize anymore, since his initiative is now lower than the current count. Shemp blasts away, and Joe is wounded.

On 33, Sally goes. She decides to finish off Larry, and down he goes.

New pass: Only two people have actions now, Shemp and Sally. Joe could have had an action, but his wound modifiers drop him out of the fight. Shemp has a 4, and Sally has a 23.

Shemp will go first, and he'll dive for cover. Sally decides that she really doesn't want to have to deal with that, so she seizes and wounds Shemp. He gets under cover, and Sally's new action will be on 13. On 13, she goes again, and gets a good enough shot to kill Shemp.

Here's a link to a discussion of it on the old forums.

[Snoof]

I'd suggest doing something about the various B/R skills. It just doesn't seem consistent that Electronics B/R can fix anything from a wireless Matrix interface to a morphing licence plate, yet you need two totally different skills to repair a pistol and a shotgun, or a car and a motorbike.

A couple of general purpose Build/Repair skills would probably be the easiest way to do things, balance issues aside.

Snoof

[Link]

In regards to E-Warfare, I have a half finished set of MIJI/Sensor rules.

The main idea with them is to apply a standard test across all operations. This is like the standard Sensor vs ECM test (an opposed rating vs flux test). Skill dice dice may be added up to the device rating (qv. Cybertechnology). I also dumped the channel condition monitor in favour of a target number modifier like that of ECM modifiers (+1/success).

Anyway I have a word doc with the basics, maybe I can post it.

Further, I like the maneouvre score but it could be simplified. The RBB/SR2 system was abstracted which was good.

[nezumi]

Better rigger rules (don't even talk about MIJI!)

Better explained decker rules

Perhaps some way to keep mages from outpacing everyone else

A decent explanation of magic, especially invisibility

More realistic numbers for some cyberware:
Cyberlimbs
Headware memory
Headware comm stuff

Oh, and, of course, more 'fun' cyber. I love the CP2020 conversion books, but seriously, a lot of CP stuff is whacked and totally unbalancing. A little more editing by someone I trust on other cyber that's available would be fun.

[lord_cack]

I am gonna go out on a limb here and mention something that may well bring me a great deal of ridicule.

I think that if a fan project were to be undertaken to "organise" SR3, then I think that a format like Dungeons and Dragons would work great. Just break the rules down into there basic concepts and move them into there own volumes.

I think that the Core book is, though a nice attempt at putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak, is also overwhelming when it comes to the story. So I think that a gazetteer would be better. I know how tight the rules and the story of Shadowrun fit together, but more it is a lot to take in as a new player and a lot of information to flip through when you need to find some rule as a GM.

I mean I don't see the problem with having a Players Handbook with the Core Mechanics, a Gamemasters Guide with the details and ins and outs of the rules, and a gazetteer. Then you could move all the spells and gear into the Players Handbook (without all the GM stuff and Story Details to fill it up it should have plenty of room for a little more gear and spells). Then you can put things like the rules for Initiation (and various extra magic rules), weapon creation (and various other cyber and gear related rules) in the GM's guide. Then use the best Info from New Seattle and Shadows of the United States as the basic gazeteer.

Shadowrun isn't modular. But, that doesn't mean that a revision of SR3 (now that it's pretty clear thats not the "official intentions) couldn't be formatted that way.

And I know that some would say that if the system was released in that format it would cost to much to get the basics, but lets face it...you were gonna buy the books anyway....

Of course once you have all the rules seperated and in order, you can then go about seeing whats wrong, whats not, and how to go about fixing things....

[Eldritch]

Hey Kage, Should these threads be moved into the 'Community Projects) area? It might make it easier to track them. Maybe you could get the admins to open up your own sub forum within projects - that'd keep all of you eggs in one basket :)

[Kagetenshi]

Mm. Community Projects would make more sense, and I considered it, but it would also get a lot less traffic, which I consider fairly important to the goal of coming up with streamlined rules that stick as close to SR3 as possible and are easy for a variety of people to understand and use. The more people offering suggestions, the more potential there will be that a suggestion or combination of suggestions will offer a solution that a smaller number of people might not have come up with, or at least might not have come up with in nearly the same timeframe.

I'll try to organize things such that navigating within the SR3R project is as easy as possible, though.

~J

[Eldritch]

Yeah, that makes sense.

Maybe put links to the various threads in your sig.

[Kagetenshi]

Ok, the top of the first post of each SR3R thread is now dedicated to navigation. It will be updated as additional threads are created.

~J

[Shadow]

Kage there is a big part of SR that needs a rework, and one I was hoping for in SR4. And that is the firearms, armor and Combat.

Don't get me wrong, I love the SR combat system, but to use FP's own words, some stream lining is in order.

The Firearms to, their weights are ridiculously high, they don't have enough ammo and there really is NO reason to carry anything other than a HP (pistol wise).

I would happily undertake this part of it (reworking fire arms and ammo) if you wish. And I would have no problem submitting everything to you for approval and reworking on your say so.

[Kagetenshi]

Mm. The problem with firearms is that a lot of the modifications there are more geared towards increasing realism rather than balancing or reducing complexity (obviously, there are exceptions). I'll definitely be addressing them, but I'm planning to do Decking and probably Rigging first, as I think those can be gotten through much faster. That being said, feel free to come up with ideas on your own or to post suggestions in this thread, but I won't be opening a Firearms thread until I feel that the Deckers thread has resolved many of the major issues with the system (at earliest).

That said, I could easily see that only taking a few weeks if there's enough analysis of the issues.

~J

[psykotisk_overle...]

A legality system that makes sense. Right now you'll need a permit for an AP and another one for your browning max power and another one for your Ares light fire. I mean, you can avoid this by carrying multiples of the same gun, but in most countries a permit to carry a pistol is a permit to carry any pistol. Also, it should be possible to get a permit for anything that are used by others than the military. (i.e. if security corps can carry it on the street, there should be a permit for it)

[BitBasher]

[Eldritch]

I know I might be jumping the gun with this question, but a I thought I'd throw it out there;

Are there any plans to change thte core char gen rules?

I ask this now, becuase I want to bring up Mackies Char Gen Program. I'd hate to see that resource go to waste, you know?

Changing gear and gear stats is 'simple' enough, just editi the dat files - as long as you don't add any new fields....

[Kagetenshi]

Part of my overall goal is to streamline as much as possible while changing as little as possible of the fundaments of the game. While I'm not going to specifically maintain compatibility, I do not at this time foresee meaningful compatibility breaks.

~J

[Eyeless Blond]

[hahnsoo]

[SirBedevere]

[Jrayjoker]

Integrate all skill tests into one ruleset with as few situational modifiers as reasonably possible. I have enjoyed the trend toward one ruleset for all actions whether they are in the matrix, the meatworld, or a vehicle.

Get rid of the maneuver test in vehicle rigging, force the matrix combat (and skill/utility actions like unlocking doors, changing video feeds, etc) to run on the same initiative as the meatworld, simplify invisibility as mentioned before.

What do you call 100 lawyers in cement shoes at the bottom of a lake?

[ Spoiler ]

A good start

I think we have a good start here....

[Eldritch]

[Jrayjoker]

No, unimpeded movement is still as fast as ever. My intention is to sync up matrix combat with real life timeframes. Their initiative can be as fast as they can roll, but the timing is based on standard rounds. Sure, the GM has to work in 2 (or 3 if they are doing astral too) settings simultaneously, but that can be integrated.

[Kagetenshi]

The timing is already based on standard three-second rounds.

~J