Apr 14 2005, 06:04 AM
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Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
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SR3R Master Thread Jon’s Glorious Karma Character Generation System (S3CKS) Ranged Combat Astral Space, Essence, and the Awakened New Gear Cyberware Time, Pool, and the Flow of Combat _________________________________________________ Decided: (All of these are subject to reopening for discussion should there be any strong argument for a different path) 1) Too many operations. What can we combine? System Operations Quick Reference Operational Utilities Quick Reference (Both pretty rough, apologies.) [ Spoiler ] 2) Validate makes the world obsolete. Validate and Invalidate Account can only be performed on the main user database, which may be protected or on another host altogether and must be found first. Other functions of Validate may be used anywhere. 3) Program sizes: needed detail and balance, or needlessly complex? Moreover, do we need active memory? Does it need to be adjusted? Program sizes are maintained, as is active memory. Possible issue: this may make it too easy to program necessary tools. This will be looked at again when programming is considered. 4) Link Utilities: do we need them? No. Link utilities are now gone. The appropriate hardware is all that is required to use a wireless link. 5) Null Operations: what the hell do we do with this? Nothing. Rules stay as is. 6) Sleaze+masking: keep or toss? Sleaze has been dropped. Masking alone now determines Detection Factor. Modes are dropped until they can be examined in detail. 7) Combat Utilities: how are they going to work? Attack utilities use decker's skill, with program rating determining attack Power. Killjoy and Black Hammer determine their damage level based on the host they're on; the explanation for this is that the utilities involve using the host's processing power against the opposing decker. The Power remains the rating of the utility. 8) Guardian: do we need it? Should it be software? Guardian is now gone, and will be replaced by appropriate security hardware. _________________________________________________ In progress: 9) Maneuvers Beneficial? Overly complicated? Rarely useful? What needs to be changed about these? 10) Multiple Deckers What the Sam Hill do we do with these? Possible solutions: 1: every user has their own security tally, which follows them as in canon SR3. The highest of all the tallies on a host is the one that determines IC, and only one copy of IC shows up. Issues: too easy to mob and overpower IC with a decker pack. 2: tally is held by the host and follows deckers amongst security-linked systems, but not elsewhere. Tally is equal to the tally generated by all deckers on the host. Issues: makes tally generated on a RTG not worth bothering about. 3: Both the user and the host have tally counts. Every point of tally gained on a system adds one to the tally of the user who triggered it and to the tally of the host itself. Anytime a decker joins a host that has less tally than he or she does, the host's tally rises to equal that of the decker. Issues: involves the most bookkeeping. _________________________________________________ Let's limit our scope. For right now, we're just going to be talking about the old-fashioned kind of deckers (we're not addressing Otaku yet), and addressing only basic system tests. No cybercombat, no writing programs, no types of connections, just straight-up skill and program and operation, plus the host. In fact, let's not even take deck attributes into account yet except for Storage Memory, Active Memory, and MPCP. The way I plan to do this is to take the current system, pare it down as much as possible without losing anything important, and then see if it's playable alongside meat action by someone who is experienced but not a master of the relevant rules. If not, we start looking at more drastic action. The most obvious possible issues 1) Too many Operations. What can we combine? Currently, Logon to Host, Logon to LTG, and Logon to RTG are all Complex actions that use Deception to go against Access. The only possible reason I can think of for this is to balance the Codeslinger edge (and the Codeblock flaw); the clear answer is to eliminate that edge/flaw pairing and combine them into a single Logon operation. Other combinations are more tricky. Edit Slave and Monitor Slave are both monitored operations that use Spoof against Slave, but they do different things and take different actions (Edit is Complex, Monitor is Simple). Do we combine them? If so, do we make them both Simple? Both Complex? Leave a note that one use is Simple and the other Complex? If so, why? 2) Validate makes the world obsolete. Pretty much what it says. My idea is to either get rid of Validate entirely and introduce a suggested mechanic (probably just a glorified example) for including a user database in a host that players can edit over the course of a number of operations including Search, Read/Write, and possibly Decrypt. Alternately, Validate could continue to exist (allowing editing of user databases more easily), but it would still take at least a Search to find it. User databases could be kept on different hosts entirely, making it a valid decision whether or not to try for a fake account as opposed to a no-brainer on anything but the most jacked-Control hosts. 3) Program sizes: needed detail and balance, or needlessly complex? Moreover, do we need Active Memory? I personally think that the current method is nicely balancing. However, I'm not sure it's balancing enough to be worth the extra work. Discuss. Feel free to suggest other issues, but please keep all discussion on these three topics until I introduce additional topics for consideration. Ideally we'll have at least one, possibly two or all three with at least a preliminary solution before we move on to the next set of issues. ~J |
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Kagetenshi Decking Apr 14 2005, 06:04 AM
Fortune Are we assuming that the Matrix stay as it is alre... Apr 14 2005, 06:14 AM
Kagetenshi Yes. We can add on rules for the WMI as needed lat... Apr 14 2005, 06:22 AM
Fortune I just figured it was something that should be cla... Apr 14 2005, 06:27 AM
Kagetenshi Good catch, thanks.
~J Apr 14 2005, 06:44 AM
Elfie I'll take a stab at the questions you listed. ... Apr 14 2005, 02:03 PM
Eyeless Blond One thing I'd like to do is trim the fat when ... Apr 14 2005, 02:56 PM
Hitomi QUOTE (Elfie @ Apr 14 2005, 09:03 AM) 1) All ... Apr 14 2005, 03:23 PM
Moon-Hawk In response to Eyeless Blond:
First off, let me sa... Apr 14 2005, 03:26 PM
Eyeless Blond QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)Operational Utilities: I ag... Apr 14 2005, 03:38 PM
Elfie Now I get to put back the part I edited out of my ... Apr 14 2005, 03:49 PM
Kagetenshi Ok, I'm going to expand the scope of Issue 1 t... Apr 14 2005, 03:53 PM
Eyeless Blond The thing about operational utilities is that they... Apr 14 2005, 04:03 PM
Kagetenshi Deception is a barrier to entry, sure, but if you ... Apr 14 2005, 04:08 PM
SirBedevere As per your original post:
1) Both actions contr... Apr 14 2005, 04:41 PM
Kagetenshi 4) Link Utilities
In my opinion, we can drop thes... Apr 14 2005, 05:19 PM
Eldritch I duuno, I know we're trying to simplify thing... Apr 14 2005, 05:21 PM
Kagetenshi That is one possibility: ratings on the physical h... Apr 14 2005, 05:27 PM
Eldritch I'll sit down and really go through my matrix ... Apr 14 2005, 05:37 PM
Kagetenshi I was referring to the hardware for wireless links... Apr 14 2005, 05:46 PM
Eldritch Sorry - that's what I get for trying to post i... Apr 14 2005, 05:57 PM
mfb the easiest way to counter Validate is to introduc... Apr 14 2005, 05:58 PM
Kagetenshi Though that certainly makes things better, a root ... Apr 14 2005, 06:05 PM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) One thing I'd like to do... Apr 14 2005, 06:23 PM
blakkie QUOTE (Kagetenshi) Yes. We can add on rules for th... Apr 14 2005, 06:45 PM
Kagetenshi It's no assumption whatsoever. We can add on r... Apr 14 2005, 06:47 PM
Eldritch I like the concept of the Wirless matrix as well. ... Apr 14 2005, 07:16 PM
Kagetenshi SR3R, or Shadowrun 3rd Revised. Deliberately stayi... Apr 14 2005, 07:24 PM
Kagetenshi For right now I'm going to assume that Freeze ... Apr 14 2005, 08:09 PM
Eyeless Blond QUOTE (Kagetenshi)The question is, what happens to... Apr 15 2005, 01:14 AM
Eyeless Blond QUOTE (Kagetenshi) Thoughts?
Rolling very simi... Apr 15 2005, 01:26 AM
Kagetenshi QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Apr 14 2005, 08:14 PM)... Apr 15 2005, 01:28 AM
Eyeless Blond QUOTE (Kagetenshi) QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)I still th... Apr 15 2005, 02:52 AM
Dissonance I do like the idea of simply having five (or a few... Apr 15 2005, 03:50 AM
Kagetenshi Eyeless: I like your thinking, but I still don... Apr 15 2005, 03:58 AM
Kagetenshi Index
Browse
Locate Access Node
Locate File
Locat... Apr 15 2005, 06:08 AM
Kagetenshi Files
Read/Write
Download Data
Edit File
Send Dat... Apr 15 2005, 06:20 AM
Fortune QUOTE (Dissonance) I get the impression that this ... Apr 15 2005, 06:25 AM
Kagetenshi Slave
Spoof
Control Slave
Edit Slave
Monitor Slav... Apr 15 2005, 06:26 AM
Kagetenshi The Big Picture
Access
Deception
Logon
Freeze Van... Apr 15 2005, 06:55 AM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) QUOTE (hahnsoo)QUOTE Now for... Apr 15 2005, 06:56 AM
hahnsoo Ditch the Triangulate Utility. Any cellphone towe... Apr 15 2005, 07:04 AM
Kagetenshi If we merge Triangulate with Commlink, that gives ... Apr 15 2005, 07:08 AM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Kagetenshi) If we merge Triangulate with Co... Apr 15 2005, 07:17 AM
Kagetenshi I'm afraid you're going to have to come up... Apr 15 2005, 07:24 AM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Apr 15 2005, 02:24 AM) I... Apr 15 2005, 07:46 AM
Kagetenshi I'm not looking for a reward, I'm looking ... Apr 15 2005, 07:52 AM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Apr 15 2005, 02:52 AM) I ... Apr 15 2005, 07:55 AM
mfb what--dude, are you serious? even in your rules, d... Apr 15 2005, 07:57 AM
Kagetenshi Argh. I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I... Apr 15 2005, 08:03 AM
mfb i like the ACIFS uber-progs, btw. if i were a prop... Apr 15 2005, 08:14 AM
Kagetenshi Out of interest, what would you prefer instead of ... Apr 15 2005, 08:19 AM
mfb honestly? i'd scrap the whole system and start... Apr 15 2005, 08:22 AM
Kagetenshi *Roasts a marshmallow*
Actually, while I personal... Apr 15 2005, 08:30 AM
SirBedevere Kagetenshi, I like your ideas about the Control op... Apr 15 2005, 11:41 AM
blakkie QUOTE (mfb @ Apr 15 2005, 02:22 AM) honestly?... Apr 15 2005, 01:49 PM
Link QUOTE (Dissonance)
I get the impression that this ... Apr 15 2005, 02:15 PM
Link Quick point: The term Matrix 2.0 was used in VR2 t... Apr 15 2005, 02:35 PM
Eyeless Blond QUOTE (Kagetenshi) Commlink
Make Comcall
Triangula... Apr 15 2005, 03:09 PM
Kagetenshi Have the extensibility guidelines done anything to... Apr 15 2005, 03:40 PM
Eyeless Blond That was pretty much all I was looking for really,... Apr 15 2005, 03:56 PM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) How's this one, though: ... Apr 15 2005, 04:54 PM
Kagetenshi I've already volunteered for quite a bit of br... Apr 15 2005, 04:58 PM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Apr 15 2005, 11:58 AM) 5)... Apr 15 2005, 05:00 PM
Eldritch QUOTE The Big Picture
Access
Deception
Logon
Free... Apr 15 2005, 05:08 PM
Kagetenshi I don't know how to express it, but I feel tha... Apr 15 2005, 05:21 PM
Fortune QUOTE (Kagetenshi) 5) Null Operations
What the he... Apr 15 2005, 05:22 PM
Kagetenshi Well, that's exactly the question I'm aski... Apr 15 2005, 05:24 PM
Eyeless Blond Well remember it's only one test for however l... Apr 15 2005, 05:30 PM
Kagetenshi Null op stays as is.
Anything else before the Spe... Apr 15 2005, 05:33 PM
Kagetenshi 6) Sleaze
I personally like Sleaze adding in a so... Apr 16 2005, 06:48 AM
hahnsoo QUOTE (Kagetenshi) 6) Sleaze
I personally like Sl... Apr 16 2005, 06:52 AM
Eyeless Blond Either ditch it, or ditch Evasion and Masking as P... Apr 16 2005, 03:50 PM
Kagetenshi Any suggestions as to which side should be scrappe... Apr 16 2005, 04:07 PM
Eldritch I wouldn't touch any of the persona programs -... Apr 17 2005, 07:59 PM
Shockwave_IIc Ok i know i'm late with a lot of this, for tha... Apr 18 2005, 08:47 AM
Eyeless Blond Indeed, ditching Sleaze is less work, and gives yo... Apr 18 2005, 10:26 AM
Shockwave_IIc QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Apr 18 2005, 10:26 AM)... Apr 18 2005, 10:48 AM
Eyeless Blond Yes, but it's a Google 60 years in the future,... Apr 18 2005, 11:21 AM
Shockwave_IIc QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)content-recognition is going ... Apr 19 2005, 06:06 AM
Kagetenshi No worries, it's keeping the thread active whi... Apr 19 2005, 12:46 PM
Eyeless Blond Guess that answers *that* question doesn't it? Apr 19 2005, 03:41 PM
Kagetenshi Right, where was I. We'll do two to four more ... Apr 19 2005, 09:20 PM
hahnsoo I've always thought Attack Program = Weapons. ... Apr 19 2005, 09:32 PM
Link In regard to combat utilities, having the attack b... Apr 20 2005, 04:04 AM
Kagetenshi Why would attacks as simple actions be either unne... Apr 20 2005, 04:24 AM
Fortune QUOTE (Link) In regard to combat utilities, having... Apr 20 2005, 04:34 AM
Kagetenshi It may make sense, but it isn't what the book ... Apr 20 2005, 04:40 AM
Fortune We've had this discussion before, and the book... Apr 20 2005, 04:46 AM
Kagetenshi I disagree that it can be read either way.
Woah, ... Apr 20 2005, 04:50 AM
Fortune Let me dig up the response ...
Nope, he didn... Apr 20 2005, 04:52 AM
Link Unnecessary in that one attack test is faster than... Apr 20 2005, 04:59 AM
Kagetenshi More to the point it's a philosophy that would... Apr 20 2005, 05:16 AM
Shockwave_IIc Guardian chip. thats the one where you need a pass... Apr 20 2005, 06:27 AM
Kagetenshi That's actually exactly what I've already ... Apr 20 2005, 06:34 AM
Link QUOTE More to the point it's a philosophy tha... Apr 21 2005, 03:11 AM
Link As above Apr 21 2005, 03:12 AM
Kagetenshi Guardian is now misc. hardware, Attack now uses De... Apr 22 2005, 05:49 AM
Shockwave_IIc Personally im up for keeping the program size... Apr 22 2005, 09:01 AM
Kagetenshi I didn't have anything in mind. I think it... Apr 22 2005, 11:16 AM![]() ![]() |
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