Twinkies!, And no, not the yellow cakey things Options

[ElFenrir]

So, what in your opinions makes a twink a twink?

I've played in enough different groups, and everyone seems to have their own opinions.

Personally I think it's just when someone just pays too much attention to numbers over character. I mean, I'm not against high numbers. Look at some of the sample characters. That troll merc is one mean fella...some killer stats, skills, and ware...not to mention the firepower the guy packs. The sammie is the '1,000,000' sammie, with some hella frightening speed, and some killer skills as well. The combat decker is an all around badass...and there are some folks that would call these character's a twinkies dream. (Tho i suppose the troll merc cuts it close with an LMG with EX explosive rounds with enough recoil comp to not suffer any penalties. Ouch.)

I dunno, for me it's what you do with the character and how they are played that has it. I guess while someone would take a flaw that fits their character, a twink will do it for reason of points (wow, you mean I can be allergic to dog food and get 3 points for it??).

Whats your takes? Do good stats/skills mean a twink? Or is it how they are played, whether or not the numbers are justified, or what? How they go about it? (wow, I can cut this and this, and I can save a point for this, thus upping my chances of this...)

Sometimes i admit, it does get tiring to listen to a GM cut down everyone's character in a group, simply because they are particulary good at some things. Background first is what most of us believe in, but at the same time, someone who does a particular job is going to TRY to get better and better at it...if I was going to get into rigging, damn well I am going to learn how to drive that car inside and out so I don't kill myself. Yes, a mage is going to try to improve their magical skills. Yes, a sharpshooter might have a frighteningly high Rifle skill.

Where does the 'common sense' end and the 'twinkiness' begins?

[Kaosaur]

The best twinks are the kind who explain it all away in a very plausible background. :D

[ElFenrir]

Well, we try to avoid twinking ourselves. But again, a twink to one group isn't to another, and so on. We have i guess a 'moderate' view...we are wary when someone enters the group with 4 or 5 active skills at rating 6, 7 mil spec weapons, half of their ware is milspec, and have 100 kilo of C-12. A merc with some good stats, a couple milspec weapons, and a few pieces of milspec ware with skills distributed realistically in their field of expertise would be alright, tho.


Then again, we'd be wary is someone entered the group with stats in the 3-4 range, moderate skills, but were packing 100 vials of anthrax, FAB-3, and other viruses. :eek: This has actually happened before to a friend...someone was saying they were playing a scientist. Good skills in computers and some other things, but not much else. Weak stats save int and will. But they had a bunch of freaking viruses!!!

[hyzmarca]

Four words - Ghoul Albino Gnome Mage (with Exceptional Atribute:Willpower)

Having a lot of skills doesn't make one a twink or a munchkin. Having a single thing that one can do absurdly well at the expense tertiary abilities doesn't necessrilary one a twink or a munchkin.
Having a single thing that one does absurdly well at the expense to tertiary abilities and always doing that single thing no matter what; that makes a one a twink or a munchkin.

[Trax]

If I wanted to play a character with useless skills and mundane attributes I'd just live life :D

[Kaosaur]

[Trax]

But anyway, even though I'm crap at writting backgrounds to my characters I do make an effort at writting one. I don't use Edges/Flaws and calculating all the stuff I should get in the future down to the last point of Karma/Nuyen. I take skills as I think my character might need them, or because I didn't think of it when I made him.

[drakeraven]

The twink should be primarily used to describe the dude in MMO thats like, "dude you suck I have the best <insert wiz gear here> and you have the blue light special from target". It's supposed to be an insult, not an attribute you put on characters. If a PC actually trys to use his background to explain high end gear and skills and actually plays a professional, I wouldn't think of that guy as a twink. It's the difference between a guy saying, "I need biotech 6 so I can reduce your wound lvl by 3" and the one who says, "The day I watched my sister bleed to death while I tried to save her so I devoted myself to the art of medicine" is the key.

[kackling kactuar]

In my opinion, a twink is anyone who consciously tries to squeeze the most out of their character while keeping within the limitations imposed by the creation system. Twinks aren't necessarily poor roleplayers. The two may be correlated, but by no means do they define each other.

[Crimson Jack]

Twink? Are we playing a MMORG? I thought the term was munchkin.

Anyhow, what I think makes a "twink" is when a player picks the absolute best race for the best profession, gives him the best skills for said profession, milks the edges/flaws system for maximum gain/minimum drawbacks, and in the process of... tries to talk his/her GM into allowing that he/she take an Aptitude in a combat skill, decking, or sorcery. Normally, this kind of player also has a hard time comign up with a background that makes all of this mush soup make sense as well.

[JaronK]

I believe "twink" is being missused here... it means a character that gets high powered gear right from the start from a higher level character. So I'd say a twink is someone who starts with 200Bps.

I think what you mean is "munchkin." In that case, I'd say a munchkin is someone who creates a character that is effective in game but isn't a real character... just an throw together series of numbers. If you can quote all the stats for your gun but don't know what drove your character into the shadows, if you've got all the best cyber but don't know why your character thinks it's a good idea to give up a part of their soul for it, then you're a munchkin. You're not really playing a character.

JaronK

[Edward]

I see twink as being applicable when the player doesn’t really believe in the back ground as much as the numbers. They may have what would be considered a great background normally but they don’t really believe in it.

Oh and I wouldn’t recommend an allergy to dog food. You can bet you will wind up in the arcology with no food and stumble across a storeroom full of dog food. If you want an uncommon allergy for your twinkling character go for a specific brand of rat poison (your affected on contact not just ingested)

Edward

[Sahandrian]

Our resident munchkin gave us our groups definition of the term, actually...

To us, the munchkin is someone who plays for themselves, to the point that they'll ruin the game for the rest of the group.

This usually involves being a twink: focusing on one aspect of the game, and trying to use that aspect to solve everything, but it's not all of it. You have to be a jerk, too.

[Glyph]

Min-maxing and a good background are not mutually incompatible, but twinking is when you take min-maxing to the point that the character stops making logical sense, and the character background (if any) becomes a mere contrivance.

Twinking is generally not as effective as min-maxing, because it is too concerned with the "maxing" part of the equation. A min-maxer might play a gnome sorcerer with the Bonus Attribute Edge; a twink will make him an albino. The difference is that the min-maxer will think "One more point of Willpower isn't worth +1 TN's from a sunlight allergy, on top of another flaw". A min-maxer might play an elven shaman for the +2 Charisma bonus; a twink will play a dryad for the +3 Charisma bonus, oblivious to the other penalties.

Twinks can seem unimaginitive, because once they have discovered the "best" combo, they will use it all the time. It gets boring when every sorcerer they play has a Force: 1 sustaining focus for Increase Reflexes +3, all spells fetish-modified for lower Drain, and wears the same secure jacket/heavy jumpsuit/FFBA armor combo.

Twinks can be disruptive, because if they concentrate so much on one area that they are useless outside of that area, they will try to use that one area to solve every problem. Since that "one area" is usually combat-related, this can become frustrating to the other players whose role-playing encounters get turned into combats.

Twinking is not quite munchkinsim (munchkinism involves twinking, but also takes it to the next level with rule-bending or outright cheating, as well as attempting to "win" the game at the expense of the GM, other players, and the game).

[Tziluthi]

Wel, whatever twink is supposed to mean, you're probably better off not typing it into a search engine. :)

On another note, I wish we had twinkies down here. Hmm, twinkies...

[Edward]

Ok now I have a problem.

Every spell caster I have played has had increase reflexes force 1 in a sustaining focus (ok once was a anchoring focus but that is much the same thing)

I don’t like having only one action and that taking place after the fight is already all but over and there is no other way to get a respectable initiative without loosing to much essence. (I could talisman geasa the magic loss to my cyber wear but that is something I don’t like to see and more than one geasa is a real pain in the ass.)

Edward

[ElFenrir]

[toturi]

Don't suppose that you have come across the numbercruncher that can come up with a plausible cover story, have you? Oh, and any twink/munchkin worthy of the name will make sure you state the premise/environment of the game first. So any good munchkin would have an Albino(non-sunlight allergy) Gnome Peace Force Sun Shaman waiting for you.

[ElFenrir]

Ive seen a couple that can come up with at least something to back it up. But i do admit i have never seen anyone be able to justify 5 or 6 skills at rating 6. I am sure someone can make up something but i havn't heard it.

Another thing I notice is that a lot of the more munchkin types favor speed over raw power. Usually when I see Quickness 6 with max Muscle Toner, Int 6 with a max Cerebral Boost, Boosted Reflexes 3 stacked with a Synaptic Accelerator(by the book, if you read on Fanpro's site, this is LEGAL scarily enough), maximum amount of reflex enhancers...and anything else to get their reflexes the roof, I tend to worry.

There's another sneaky piece of bioware that munchkins look over...until they hear what it does: the Mnemonic Enhancer. This cuts down on karma costs for ALL active skills. When people found out about this it was like they discovered elven simporn for the first time.

And yeah, I did forget they tend to ask where it's taking place first. Well, there are other ways.

[toturi]

The number crunchers in my PnP game tend towards efficiency. Not so much the absolute maximums but hitting the maximum efficiency eg. the most Reaction or Initiative per Essense per :nuyen:. There are few "extreme monsters" but with the way my players stretch their BPs, their PCs are believeable "monsters" and they have a much easier time coming up with their cover stories.

[Charon]

[Apathy]

I always liked it when the players tried to get something for nothing. Adepts with geases like 'Only when awake', or geasing their killing hands skill to 'Only when in melee'. My favorite was 'Severe Allergy to Mother's [i.e. Breast] Milk'.

[Edward]

A point I feel the need to make is that a significant amount of power gaming is required to be in character.

For example you’re a hermetic magician that has done a couple of runs and find your lack of reaction speed (initiative) costing you dearly so you read some articles and consider your choices. There are 6 spells that could help, inc ref 1, inc ref 2, inc ref 3, inc reaction, inc int, ink qui. Whichever he chooses he needs a sustaining focus to work with it because otherwise he would be to distracted to work. The later 3 spells all have other benefits but are going to provide a small benefit to reaction speed (initiative).

The three versions of increase reflexes all would cost the same to buy and have the same difficulty to learn. The more powerful versions have greater drain but you probably will be able to cast it days in advance most of the time (just be careful about wards)

Money is tight and sustaining foci are expensive. It would need to be force 5 to have a chance against a reasonable ward and that is probably out of the price range.

So after that in character research what spell, focus and force do you think the magician will choose. But every time somebody takes ink ref 3 in a force 1 sustaining focus people call it cheesy.

Edward

[Kremlin KOA]

The breast milk one I would allow in my games... and the first girl the PC hooks up with in game is lactating... end of character

My definition of a twi--- Munchkin is someone who is out to "win" at the expense of fun

My definition of a powergamer is somebody who makes their character as powerful as they can by stretching believability... but has a background and interesting personality for the char
The ork with the kevlar bones and dermal sheath... and enough other armour to bounce a shotgun blast without combat pool

or in "the other RPG" the paladin who has rogue levels so she can use sneak attack

[Lantzer]

I liked a character that was posted some time back that was a surged elf -

with the surged flaw 'pointed ears'.

A pretty good indication that you are dealing with a twink character is when the thing is a physical mage loaded down with geas'd milspec cyber and a memnonic enhancer. The geas's are, of course, talisman foci kept in an internal compartment in the cyber.

I suppose that a twink could be defined as a character that makes the GM groan internally for more than one reason when he sees the character.

Twinks don't have to be original. Most of the ones you see are using 'tricks' that have been around for a while. At most they mix up which combination of these gets used. One of the advantages of reading these forums is, I get to see these tricks before my players figure them out, so I'm not terribly surpised, to the detriment of everybody's fun.

I also find that players of twink characters get bored quickly in play. They often are looking at the _next_ ugly concatenation of abilites...