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ElFenrir
So, what in your opinions makes a twink a twink?

I've played in enough different groups, and everyone seems to have their own opinions.

Personally I think it's just when someone just pays too much attention to numbers over character. I mean, I'm not against high numbers. Look at some of the sample characters. That troll merc is one mean fella...some killer stats, skills, and ware...not to mention the firepower the guy packs. The sammie is the '1,000,000' sammie, with some hella frightening speed, and some killer skills as well. The combat decker is an all around badass...and there are some folks that would call these character's a twinkies dream. (Tho i suppose the troll merc cuts it close with an LMG with EX explosive rounds with enough recoil comp to not suffer any penalties. Ouch.)

I dunno, for me it's what you do with the character and how they are played that has it. I guess while someone would take a flaw that fits their character, a twink will do it for reason of points (wow, you mean I can be allergic to dog food and get 3 points for it??).

Whats your takes? Do good stats/skills mean a twink? Or is it how they are played, whether or not the numbers are justified, or what? How they go about it? (wow, I can cut this and this, and I can save a point for this, thus upping my chances of this...)

Sometimes i admit, it does get tiring to listen to a GM cut down everyone's character in a group, simply because they are particulary good at some things. Background first is what most of us believe in, but at the same time, someone who does a particular job is going to TRY to get better and better at it...if I was going to get into rigging, damn well I am going to learn how to drive that car inside and out so I don't kill myself. Yes, a mage is going to try to improve their magical skills. Yes, a sharpshooter might have a frighteningly high Rifle skill.

Where does the 'common sense' end and the 'twinkiness' begins?
Kaosaur
The best twinks are the kind who explain it all away in a very plausible background. biggrin.gif
ElFenrir
Well, we try to avoid twinking ourselves. But again, a twink to one group isn't to another, and so on. We have i guess a 'moderate' view...we are wary when someone enters the group with 4 or 5 active skills at rating 6, 7 mil spec weapons, half of their ware is milspec, and have 100 kilo of C-12. A merc with some good stats, a couple milspec weapons, and a few pieces of milspec ware with skills distributed realistically in their field of expertise would be alright, tho.


Then again, we'd be wary is someone entered the group with stats in the 3-4 range, moderate skills, but were packing 100 vials of anthrax, FAB-3, and other viruses. eek.gif This has actually happened before to a friend...someone was saying they were playing a scientist. Good skills in computers and some other things, but not much else. Weak stats save int and will. But they had a bunch of freaking viruses!!!
hyzmarca
Four words - Ghoul Albino Gnome Mage (with Exceptional Atribute:Willpower)

Having a lot of skills doesn't make one a twink or a munchkin. Having a single thing that one can do absurdly well at the expense tertiary abilities doesn't necessrilary one a twink or a munchkin.
Having a single thing that one does absurdly well at the expense to tertiary abilities and always doing that single thing no matter what; that makes a one a twink or a munchkin.
Trax
If I wanted to play a character with useless skills and mundane attributes I'd just live life biggrin.gif
Kaosaur
QUOTE (Trax)
If I wanted to play a character with useless skills and mundane attributes I'd just live life biggrin.gif

Essentially, this is how I feel about it too.
Trax
But anyway, even though I'm crap at writting backgrounds to my characters I do make an effort at writting one. I don't use Edges/Flaws and calculating all the stuff I should get in the future down to the last point of Karma/Nuyen. I take skills as I think my character might need them, or because I didn't think of it when I made him.
drakeraven
The twink should be primarily used to describe the dude in MMO thats like, "dude you suck I have the best <insert wiz gear here> and you have the blue light special from target". It's supposed to be an insult, not an attribute you put on characters. If a PC actually trys to use his background to explain high end gear and skills and actually plays a professional, I wouldn't think of that guy as a twink. It's the difference between a guy saying, "I need biotech 6 so I can reduce your wound lvl by 3" and the one who says, "The day I watched my sister bleed to death while I tried to save her so I devoted myself to the art of medicine" is the key.
kackling kactuar
In my opinion, a twink is anyone who consciously tries to squeeze the most out of their character while keeping within the limitations imposed by the creation system. Twinks aren't necessarily poor roleplayers. The two may be correlated, but by no means do they define each other.
Crimson Jack
Twink? Are we playing a MMORG? I thought the term was munchkin.

Anyhow, what I think makes a "twink" is when a player picks the absolute best race for the best profession, gives him the best skills for said profession, milks the edges/flaws system for maximum gain/minimum drawbacks, and in the process of... tries to talk his/her GM into allowing that he/she take an Aptitude in a combat skill, decking, or sorcery. Normally, this kind of player also has a hard time comign up with a background that makes all of this mush soup make sense as well.
JaronK
I believe "twink" is being missused here... it means a character that gets high powered gear right from the start from a higher level character. So I'd say a twink is someone who starts with 200Bps.

I think what you mean is "munchkin." In that case, I'd say a munchkin is someone who creates a character that is effective in game but isn't a real character... just an throw together series of numbers. If you can quote all the stats for your gun but don't know what drove your character into the shadows, if you've got all the best cyber but don't know why your character thinks it's a good idea to give up a part of their soul for it, then you're a munchkin. You're not really playing a character.

JaronK
Edward
I see twink as being applicable when the player doesn’t really believe in the back ground as much as the numbers. They may have what would be considered a great background normally but they don’t really believe in it.

Oh and I wouldn’t recommend an allergy to dog food. You can bet you will wind up in the arcology with no food and stumble across a storeroom full of dog food. If you want an uncommon allergy for your twinkling character go for a specific brand of rat poison (your affected on contact not just ingested)

Edward
Sahandrian
Our resident munchkin gave us our groups definition of the term, actually...

To us, the munchkin is someone who plays for themselves, to the point that they'll ruin the game for the rest of the group.

This usually involves being a twink: focusing on one aspect of the game, and trying to use that aspect to solve everything, but it's not all of it. You have to be a jerk, too.
Glyph
Min-maxing and a good background are not mutually incompatible, but twinking is when you take min-maxing to the point that the character stops making logical sense, and the character background (if any) becomes a mere contrivance.

Twinking is generally not as effective as min-maxing, because it is too concerned with the "maxing" part of the equation. A min-maxer might play a gnome sorcerer with the Bonus Attribute Edge; a twink will make him an albino. The difference is that the min-maxer will think "One more point of Willpower isn't worth +1 TN's from a sunlight allergy, on top of another flaw". A min-maxer might play an elven shaman for the +2 Charisma bonus; a twink will play a dryad for the +3 Charisma bonus, oblivious to the other penalties.

Twinks can seem unimaginitive, because once they have discovered the "best" combo, they will use it all the time. It gets boring when every sorcerer they play has a Force: 1 sustaining focus for Increase Reflexes +3, all spells fetish-modified for lower Drain, and wears the same secure jacket/heavy jumpsuit/FFBA armor combo.

Twinks can be disruptive, because if they concentrate so much on one area that they are useless outside of that area, they will try to use that one area to solve every problem. Since that "one area" is usually combat-related, this can become frustrating to the other players whose role-playing encounters get turned into combats.

Twinking is not quite munchkinsim (munchkinism involves twinking, but also takes it to the next level with rule-bending or outright cheating, as well as attempting to "win" the game at the expense of the GM, other players, and the game).
Tziluthi
Wel, whatever twink is supposed to mean, you're probably better off not typing it into a search engine. smile.gif

On another note, I wish we had twinkies down here. Hmm, twinkies...
Edward
Ok now I have a problem.

Every spell caster I have played has had increase reflexes force 1 in a sustaining focus (ok once was a anchoring focus but that is much the same thing)

I don’t like having only one action and that taking place after the fight is already all but over and there is no other way to get a respectable initiative without loosing to much essence. (I could talisman geasa the magic loss to my cyber wear but that is something I don’t like to see and more than one geasa is a real pain in the ass.)

Edward
ElFenrir
QUOTE
Oh and I wouldn’t recommend an allergy to dog food. You can bet you will wind up in the arcology with no food and stumble across a storeroom full of dog food.


You just gave me an idea for the next time I GM. Thanks biggrin.gif

And i also miss the actuall yellow cake things. Not around here.

But yeah, I know that munchkins(i had to contend with a few) will indeed try to cheat like hell to get what they want. YEah, they just try to 'win' the game.

Interesting takes on it. Most aren't too far off what me and my friends think. I am almost ashamed to admit when I was a teen, I was a twinkie player(well, by our standards ot it In some groups I was an amateur at the subject of twinking and that was scary.) But as i grew up i quickly got bored of it. However, it gave me the knowhow to see when someone tries to slip something past me, so I guess the twinkie past has it's benefits.

I knew a few players like this: After playing a few totally perfect, twinked out characters they also got bored. No weaknesses + little background=no fun. But when you're a raging teen that likes watching action movies, I can see where the urge to twink comes from.

Alas, some people never get tired of playing that character that has the best chance of 'winning the game'.

Speaking of the Albino Gnome(that one i have heard of), this might be worse: the Albino Dryad Owl Shaman with Execptional Attributes in Will and Charisma. There is another spellcasting nightmare. I would take one look at that sheet with a rather amused look on my face, accept it, then tell them the entire campaign is taking place in the middle of a city during the summer above the Arctic Circle. biggrin.gif
toturi
Don't suppose that you have come across the numbercruncher that can come up with a plausible cover story, have you? Oh, and any twink/munchkin worthy of the name will make sure you state the premise/environment of the game first. So any good munchkin would have an Albino(non-sunlight allergy) Gnome Peace Force Sun Shaman waiting for you.
ElFenrir
Ive seen a couple that can come up with at least something to back it up. But i do admit i have never seen anyone be able to justify 5 or 6 skills at rating 6. I am sure someone can make up something but i havn't heard it.

Another thing I notice is that a lot of the more munchkin types favor speed over raw power. Usually when I see Quickness 6 with max Muscle Toner, Int 6 with a max Cerebral Boost, Boosted Reflexes 3 stacked with a Synaptic Accelerator(by the book, if you read on Fanpro's site, this is LEGAL scarily enough), maximum amount of reflex enhancers...and anything else to get their reflexes the roof, I tend to worry.

There's another sneaky piece of bioware that munchkins look over...until they hear what it does: the Mnemonic Enhancer. This cuts down on karma costs for ALL active skills. When people found out about this it was like they discovered elven simporn for the first time.

And yeah, I did forget they tend to ask where it's taking place first. Well, there are other ways.

toturi
The number crunchers in my PnP game tend towards efficiency. Not so much the absolute maximums but hitting the maximum efficiency eg. the most Reaction or Initiative per Essense per nuyen.gif. There are few "extreme monsters" but with the way my players stretch their BPs, their PCs are believeable "monsters" and they have a much easier time coming up with their cover stories.
Charon
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
So, what in your opinions makes a twink a twink?

When I look at his character sheet and get a headache, a laughing fit or start crying hysterically.
Apathy
I always liked it when the players tried to get something for nothing. Adepts with geases like 'Only when awake', or geasing their killing hands skill to 'Only when in melee'. My favorite was 'Severe Allergy to Mother's [i.e. Breast] Milk'.
Edward
A point I feel the need to make is that a significant amount of power gaming is required to be in character.

For example you’re a hermetic magician that has done a couple of runs and find your lack of reaction speed (initiative) costing you dearly so you read some articles and consider your choices. There are 6 spells that could help, inc ref 1, inc ref 2, inc ref 3, inc reaction, inc int, ink qui. Whichever he chooses he needs a sustaining focus to work with it because otherwise he would be to distracted to work. The later 3 spells all have other benefits but are going to provide a small benefit to reaction speed (initiative).

The three versions of increase reflexes all would cost the same to buy and have the same difficulty to learn. The more powerful versions have greater drain but you probably will be able to cast it days in advance most of the time (just be careful about wards)

Money is tight and sustaining foci are expensive. It would need to be force 5 to have a chance against a reasonable ward and that is probably out of the price range.

So after that in character research what spell, focus and force do you think the magician will choose. But every time somebody takes ink ref 3 in a force 1 sustaining focus people call it cheesy.

Edward
Kremlin KOA
The breast milk one I would allow in my games... and the first girl the PC hooks up with in game is lactating... end of character

My definition of a twi--- Munchkin is someone who is out to "win" at the expense of fun

My definition of a powergamer is somebody who makes their character as powerful as they can by stretching believability... but has a background and interesting personality for the char
The ork with the kevlar bones and dermal sheath... and enough other armour to bounce a shotgun blast without combat pool

or in "the other RPG" the paladin who has rogue levels so she can use sneak attack
Lantzer
I liked a character that was posted some time back that was a surged elf -

with the surged flaw 'pointed ears'.

A pretty good indication that you are dealing with a twink character is when the thing is a physical mage loaded down with geas'd milspec cyber and a memnonic enhancer. The geas's are, of course, talisman foci kept in an internal compartment in the cyber.

I suppose that a twink could be defined as a character that makes the GM groan internally for more than one reason when he sees the character.

Twinks don't have to be original. Most of the ones you see are using 'tricks' that have been around for a while. At most they mix up which combination of these gets used. One of the advantages of reading these forums is, I get to see these tricks before my players figure them out, so I'm not terribly surpised, to the detriment of everybody's fun.

I also find that players of twink characters get bored quickly in play. They often are looking at the _next_ ugly concatenation of abilites...
TeOdio
I have no problem with power gamers. I think you cross the line into Twinkdom when you try to argue about bending the rules to get something so ludicrous, that it brings tears to my eyes. Or, trying to use a rule for something it wasn't intended. I don't see it it too much in Shadowrun, except where some players want to argue about "starting" with custom vehicles, guns and such. The rules are there to keep that kind of crap from happening, but if you are unaware of the rules and allow it, Twinkie Happens. I see Twinkness in D&D all of the time. It makes me laugh at some of the stuff my fellow gamers do. I'm pretty old school, no prestige classes, no "weird" races. At a certain point, I think a Twink or a Munchkin has more fun putting together a character or getting stuff and abilities for their character than in actually role playing. I'm not saying advancement is bad, it is a game after all, but for me, I spend more time thinking about what my character would be doing as opposed to what he could be buying.
nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif
Glyph
Just to clarify my postition... having a Force: 1 sustaining focus for Increase Reflexes +3 for every combat mage isn't twinkie, any more than having a smartlink II and enhanced articulation for every combat-oriented sammie, or a math SPU: 3 for every decker, is. Twinkiedom happens when every character looks like it was stamped from a cookie cutter. Now me, I have used optimal armor combinations, the aforementioned focus, the focused concentration edge, etc. But if I always had to have all of those things, for every single awakened character that I played, then I might be a twink. It depends. If the character was a combat mage who used to be a Lone Star SWAT sorcerer, it might fit. If the character is a rich kid ex wiz-ganger, it might not fit.
Sahandrian
QUOTE (Lantzer)
I liked a character that was posted some time back that was a surged elf -

with the surged flaw 'pointed ears'.

I posted that one.

See my post up there where I mentioned "our resident Munchkin"? Same guy.

Old Post, but not THE post.

And the file got moved here during my site updates.
Zolhex
HEY! Where's the cream filling?


Oh sorry this is on a different subject sorry.
ElFenrir
Did I just see ONE BILLION nuyen????

I am wondering how in the name of the gods that this one was made. I knew some munchkins in my time but christ. The flaws were cracking me up pretty well also :rofl:



QUOTE
The breast milk one I would allow in my games... and the first girl the PC hooks up with in game is lactating... end of character


:rofl: again. Yeah, seems like a good one to pull on 'em.

Again, in my teenage years I was a bit happy to see all the cool toys. But yeah, it does get boring. Quite a few of us were like this, but eventually we had more fun just making up a basic backstory first, building on that, then developing them. Stayed much more fun to play in the long run.

QUOTE
Twinkiedom happens when every character looks like it was stamped from a cookie cutter.


Yeah, i've seen this one. I mean there is a difference between finding something cool that works, like some armor combos, or perhaps the player themselves just has an affinity for a particular piece of equipment for some reason(IE, characters typically carry a Browning Max Power for a pistol, and the fact that every character it seems has some sort of transiever or pocket secratary doesn't count at all, comm devices are just common sense), but the cookie cutter thing starts when 'ok, so, you're playing ANOTHER guy with a customized Ares Alpha Combatgun loaded with EX explosive rounds and a Dikote treated polearm with a Salvette Guardian back up pistol loaded with Glazers??' This is where it starts to get redundant.

QUOTE
At a certain point, I think a Twink or a Munchkin has more fun putting together a character or getting stuff and abilities for their character than in actually role playing


Yeah, another good point here. Rather than seeing which flaw or edge would actually fit their character, they look at what gives the most bang for the nuyen.

And i don't think there is anything wrong with a little 'powergaming', or just trying to make your character good at what they do, be it slinging spells, decking, rigging, fighting, whatever...but when it's at the cost of character and milked solely for points/advantages it can become an issue.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
QUOTE
The breast milk one I would allow in my games... and the first girl the PC hooks up with in game is lactating... end of character


:rofl: again. Yeah, seems like a good one to pull on 'em.

Again, in my teenage years I was a bit happy to see all the cool toys. But yeah, it does get boring.

I saw this, and didn't realize you were diverging from the anecdote about lactating breasts. I was thinking "WHOA, too much information" until I read the rest of your paragraph and realized you were talking about character creation. *grin*
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA)
The breast milk one I would allow in my games... and the first girl the PC hooks up with in game is lactating... end of character

That assumes that the charater will hook up with a girl. It could be hetrosexual female, homosexual male or celebate. Surely, a good munchkin is willing to take a celebacy geas. Its not likely to be broken outside of wierd experiments in Deus's Arcrology.

More realisticly, one could have a megacorp exec realize that it is cheaper to subsidize third world widdows than it is to provide grazing land for cattle. Thus, the stuffer-shack non-soy milk alternative is, in fact, milk. Human milk.

Of course, any good enemy will do enough research to exploit food alergys. The old "both cups were poisioned" trick is cliche but it works.

It isn't the end of the character, though. Severe alergies only cause 1 box of damage per minute of contact. The munchkin has a good 200 Combat turns to sucessfully induce vomiting. Any good munchkin will know that and insist that you play by the rules.
Edward
Vomiting only removes about 1/3 of your stomach contents, this is why firstaid warning labels say “do not induse vomiting).

Sory munchy you just earned your character a 200 round death seen.

Edward
toturi
Any munchkin would have Regeneration to go with that Severe Allergy or have a Sustaining Focus with Alleviate Allergy. A true munchkin would have seen that he gets maximum efficiency when he uses a moderate allergy.
Apathy
For me, the specific details of how to make the PCs suffer when they choose munchkin flaws is somewhat beside the point. As a GM, I don't want to have to constantly alter everybody's runs just to squash one player who tries to get free build points. If I let a player get Saader Krupp as a Level 3 enemy during char gen, then I'll have to choose between giving him freebie points, or penalizing the whole team when their runs are constantly interrupted by assassination attempts. If the charact chooses a serious phobia of mothers milk and as a result a quarter of the runs happen to be kidnapping attempts from the local maternity ward, then it makes the plot seem contrived and petty.

I think this is my complaint about munchkins in general: that they tend to hijack the plot so that it's less believable or fun for the rest of the team.

For me, I'd rather just say "No, you can't have phobia-breast milk...but you can have one toward all bodily fluids (sweat, spit, blood, urine, etc)."
Dawnshadow
Saedar Krupp at level 3?

The only interruption (edit: had been introduction) is reading his new character sheet and finding a convenient introduction point. Snipers are good.

That's presuming the first run, the team isn't hired to deliver a letter to someone down in the docks district. 'Here is he Lowfyr, fry him as you will. Try not to kill the others, they have potential, I just didn't want him to run'.

Edit: Fixed typos. Shoot, I really was asleep when I wrote this.
wagnern
To me a twink is someone who makes the rest of the party wonder why there are along for the ride.
Ed Simons
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Personally I think it's just when someone just pays too much attention to numbers over character.


Interestingly, one of the players in my game claimed he tried to play off of character story more rather than just the numbers.

Of course, he was the twink. smile.gif I'd call him a munchkin, but he wasn't skilled enough at character creation to be a munchkin. biggrin.gif

In spite of his claims that it wasn't about the numbers, he always tried to take about twice as many flaw points as any other PC (including turning off the recommended limitations on them in the NSCG). And he's the only player to ask for more extra points when starting a new character.

Also, his story didn't explain his skills, edges, flaws, or adept powers.

QUOTE (wagnern)
To me a twink is someone who makes the rest of the party wonder why there are along for the ride.


Well put. This is every Shadowrun character the twink has ever tried to create.
ef31415
QUOTE (Lantzer)
I liked a character that was posted some time back that was a surged elf -

with the surged flaw 'pointed ears'.


That can get pretty nasty, actually.

Start off with normal elven pointy ears, and turbo-point them on top of it.

Probably most people will think the character is an elf poser, not an elf. Especially other elves.

"Stop pretending. Get better surgery, human."
toturi
QUOTE (ef31415)
That can get pretty nasty, actually.

Start off with normal elven pointy ears, and turbo-point them on top of it.

Probably most people will think the character is an elf poser, not an elf. Especially other elves.

"Stop pretending. Get better surgery, human."

No. The SURGE Flaw of Pointed Ears does not confer the Elf Poser Flaw or any mechanics of that sort. However it cannot be used by any non-human.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (Edward)
Vomiting only removes about 1/3 of your stomach contents, this is why firstaid warning labels say “do not induse vomiting).

Sory munchy you just earned your character a 200 round death seen.

Edward

No, vomiting can quite readily empty out the stomach. You're misrembering. Some toxic substances will do as much damage on the way back up, and pose a serious risk of ending up getting spilled into the lungs, or do serious damage to the nasal lining, and so have to be pumped out or otherwise treated by a paramedic. Many others however, you're supposed to induce vomiting if ingested. So milk is easily gotten rid of.

Saeder Krupp as a level three enemy is easy. Before the game starts, "You're dead. Create a new character." If the player doesn't like it, they can choose a new flaw.
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith)
Saeder Krupp as a level three enemy is easy. Before the game starts, "You're dead. Create a new character." If the player doesn't like it, they can choose a new flaw.

That's not good roleplaying. Good roleplaying lets him get to the shower that morning.
Demosthenes
Or "recruits" him as a Janitor for S-K prime.
The wonders of cortex bombs...
toturi
Or the player can just hand you a photostat of the same thing... again and again and again...
Sahandrian
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Did I just see ONE BILLION nuyen????

I am wondering how in the name of the gods that this one was made. I knew some munchkins in my time but christ. The flaws were cracking me up pretty well also :rofl:

He just wrote down everything he wanted. We had a newbie GM doing her first game, and she decided to have it set several years later in our SL (we started a bit before the canon timeline, so her game would be 2065 or so). The munch decided to play his current character and improve him to reflect time 5-7 years between the two games.

You can probably tell his ideas on character improvement are somewhat flawed.

He was essentially giving himself everything he wanted and relying on the fact that she was relatively new to the game, and would let it slide because she didn't know enough about the game to check the entire sheet. Luckily, however, he showed her the sheet at school, and I dropped in right after she first saw it.

She asked me to check the sheet, so I glanced over it. Then I laughed, put it in my pocket, and told the munchkin I was going to keep it, and never give it back. I think it's currently in the desk drawer beside me.
Emmeric
QUOTE (toturi)
Or the player can just hand you a photostat of the same thing... again and again and again...

Exactly, the issue isn't with how you deal with the character (GM = endless resources. So the odds are the character will be "dealt with"), it's how you deal with the player (Player = endless character sheets, so the odds are they'll make the same character again). Some people will always be twinks (actually that's a lie. Eventually they'll hone their "skills" and become munchkins), because that's how they like to play. The only way I've been able to stop them (er, make them realize) is out of game, not in game.

However... I do recall, with somewhat misted eyes, "the ol' glory days" when I first discovered Shadowrun and our group/GM thought the magic rules were "stupid and too hard to learn." So... We didn’t use them… So… All of our characters ended up being speed demon sammies (out of game we did a "group twinking character creation"), frolicking around with careless abandoment in a world free of mages/spirits who would try to nerf them ("Will and cha of 2? Heck yes that's what I got! How else do you think I got other scores to rule so much?!"). Um, yeah... then the GM learned the magic rules pretty quick and there was pain... And we were sad...

I guess my point is (IMHO) either you eventually realize that the game is more fun when the numbers are secondary to the content or you don't. That's what makes someone a twink for me. Someone who doesn't get that...

On one more quick side note, I was wondering how the other non-twink players deal with the twinkers? When I play, if someone has an overly cheesed out character, they are usually interested in showing it off and showing what it can do. I let them. I let them have as much rein as they want to run with... "You wanna go attack the huge group of baddies straight up? Go for it. You are a combat god! You rule!" then I sneak around back while everyone is fighting or snipe from the shadows. Usually what happens is the rest of the group begins to treat the twink character as cannon fodder ("yes, you are sooo much stronger than us. That's why we need YOU to do so much more...") and they eventually die. Sometimes the player gets the hint, sometimes not. Anyway, long post. Sorry. (I’m new and excited… to finally stop lurking and post…)

EDIT: hmm, bad spelling always seems to sneak in there somehow...
ElFenrir
Well, I found that making a nice one shot adventure, that lasts maybe a weekend, for high power characters, actually can work well. Well, for the redeemable ones.

It lets them get it out of their system, to play what they want, go ahead, get the boosted 3, synaptic 2, 6 reaction enhancers and the dikoted polearm with the Ingram loaded with Glazers. Let them run rampant for a high powered weekend, and I found that boredom can set in. Then, they go back to a normal game...many WANT to go back to a normal game after it.


Of course, some, it just whets their appetite for destruction so you have to be careful when using this method. But sometimes the best cure is to let them see it's not all its cracked up to be in the long run.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith @ Apr 20 2005, 03:30 AM)
Saeder Krupp as a level three enemy is easy.  Before the game starts, "You're dead.  Create a new character."  If the player doesn't like it, they can choose a new flaw.

That's not good roleplaying. Good roleplaying lets him get to the shower that morning.

You see, that would mean actually letting him start the game with that character, which means the character would die in game, and then would probably have to be remade. I was just being a little tongue in cheek as the GM nixing the flaw.
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