Smartlinks: usable with Astral Perception?, how far does the interface go? Options

[Edward]

I would allow it even if you where blind firing, (provided you had engulf eyes for a smart unlink to operate at all)

Hear is the logic.

Even in a completely black room your smart gun link will display a projected trajectory of any bullet you fire

Although astral perception dos not require eyes the brain dose interpret it as vision perfectly overlayed on your normal vision (if you have any)

When the astral aura of your target lines up with the projected bullet trajectory you pull the trigger.

Of cause you are taking a physical action while astraly perceiving so you get a +2 TN from that so at short range your target number would be 4 +2 preserving astraly -2 smartlink.

Edward

[mfb]

exactly. the problem with shooting while blind is, you don't know exactly where your gun is pointed, and you don't know what you're shooting at. the smartlink solves half that problem by telling you exactly where your gun is pointed. the -2 makes perfect sense.

[RoaminNose]

Bah. I initially voted no (based on astral "sight" being unlinked to actual vision in any way), then thought for a second and realized that my reasoning didn't make any bloody sense.

So one of those no votes should actually be considered a yes.

[The Question]

[nezumi]

I think the question is just does astral vision overlay normal vision. If they do, yes, smartlink should work, since you can see the guy and see the gun. If they don't, they shouldn't work together (or the effect should be negligible). You see these things in your mind and you know where the guy is in relation to yourself, but can't see him (or the red smartlink dot). You can see where your gun is and where you're pointing, but you can't see the guy, you just 'know' where he is.

[ShadowGhost]

[Aardvark892]

Sorry to bring this up, but the idea of what exactly the smartlink does for the character, i.e. a "dot" or "trajectory" or whatever, seems to be based on current movie and book/game fiction and not so much on how a smartlink works. I had taken smartlinks to be directly connected to your nervous system, and would therefore be more accurate only because it heightens that... I don't know what it's called, but the inherent accuracy of your arm knowing to point where you're looking. Does this make any sense?

When someone shoots "from the hip", the brain and arm work together to point the weapon approximately where the shooter wants the bullet to go. I believe that a smartlink works to enhance this, and does not give a visual cue, such as a dot. If there is a visual component, then shouldn't a cybereye be a requirement for efficient usage of a smartlink?

If what I have suggested here is true, then it agrees with astral sight working with smartlinks.

I may have just garbled a bunch of nonsense, but I hope you all get my drift.

[toturi]

Using a SL is not a mundane action as you do not need to expend even a Free Action to do so. Any GM that gives that +2... say it with me brothers and sisters... isn't following the rules.

[Wireknight]

My belief is that when one is dual-natured, via astral perception or standard perception, one retains the existing five senses and adds the sixth "astral sense" to all perceptions of one's surroundings. Given that no senses are actually taken away (unlike when astrally projecting, wherein one's only sense is "astral sense"), I don't see why a smartlink's benefits would cease being able to apply while astrally perceiving.

It's not like characters using astral perception stop being able to read text (text being muddled gibberish conveying emotional intent, while using only astral senses), and sentient dual-natured creatures aren't universally and incurably illiterate. Their existing five senses are still working, and things that boost or rely on those senses ought to continue working, in turn. I assume that the +2 TN# to all purely physical tasks is the result, not of loss of prior-existing physical senses, but of the introduction of a sense that is not natural to the character.

Now, as far as whether or not a blind creature using only astral perception would still gain the benefits of the smartlink, that is contingent on how much of the smartlink's conferred bonues are based upon visual cues. The presence of the retinal display indicates that there are, indeed, visual components of the smartlink's benefit. However, the presence of the limited simsense rig suggest that the smartlink-granted accuracy boost is not entirely based upon the visual.

I'd say that, given what I observed and stated in the above paragraph, it might be a good idea to treat a smartlink, in the hands of someone who is blind, as smartgoggles, i.e. reducing the benefits of the system from -2 to -1. Subsequently, I'd say that a blind character attempting to use smartgoggles would gain no bonuses whatsoever.

[Aardvark892]

WireKnight, can you please tell me the reference to the retinal display? Thanks!

[Sharaloth]

...lowing the rules. Okay.

@Aardvark892

That would be really interesting, but it's not the way Smartlinks work in Canon:

[SuperSpy]

[Sharaloth]

Which is why you get the +2 for firing the gun . . . and a -2 for using the Smartlink. They cancel each other out.

Edit: never mind, no longer relevant.

[ShadowGhost]

Lining up a cyber smartlink with an astral target.... sounds like a mundane action to me, and subject to the +2.... which is entire open to interpretation.

You've also got a couple other problems with targeting an invisible man via astral with a smartlink.

How far out does a persons aura extend? There's been different argument on the board of "a few millimeters" to several inches/feet.... if it's just a few millimeters, then a powerball will destroy your armor, backpack etc, even if you resist it entirely. If it's several inches to a foot, then your astral target is bigger than your actual target.

Lastly, the target's aura is surrounded by the aura of the invisibility spell, obscuring it somewhat.

So you'd have visibility/cover modifiers on the astral plane.

So, IMHO, smartlinks would provide no bonus against an invisible target.

[Edward]

[Demosthenes]

[Critias]

[Eyeless Blond]

Critias, he (and many others) are referring to this post:

[toturi]

[nezumi]

Meh.. If Astral is a 'sixth sense', it should work as such.

You can fire based on hearing alone. Any bonuses to your hearing will help you fire better. But it'll still be based only on hearing, and you won't get any bonus from a visual system like a smartlink (realistically speaking) since you can't actually see the target and the smartlink is totally visual.

If you're firing based on sight alone (as most people are), hearing mods don't really help. Smartlink will give you its bonus, but the directional sense thingy in your ears won't. They're different senses.

Now we add a sixth sense. If you are aiming based only off of astral perception, you are not using your vision. It isn't an overlay, it's a psychic awareness. That little dot is still pointing at black, you just know something is out there. Any bonuses to your astral awareness (the enhance aim spell, perhaps) will increase the odds of the shot based on your astral senses, but since you're not using sight at all in the pitch black, the smartlink doesn't come into play any more than it would if you were firing by hearing only.

[Edward]

[Dawnshadow]

nezumi -- you'd be absolutely correct.. if people were aiming with any one sense only.

The problem isn't that it's clear what should happen in with only one sense. That's.. fairly obvious, actually.

The problem is, what happens when you're using BOTH senses?

Like, you have artificial thermo (+4 visibility mod), showing you were people are.. and you have astral perception, giving you a sixth sense of where they are, and shoot, just for good measure, you can hear them and have an augmented hearing that tells you where they are.

Why can't you use all three? Just because you have one DOESN'T MEAN the others don't work, and there's nothing inherent saying that they can't all be used.

I mean.. Which would be easier? Shooting some silent person without astral, just the +2 from artificial thermo and smartlink, or shooting some chanting person positively GLOWING on astral, that you can also see with thermo? The TN mods should reflect that, if you've got the relevent stuff.

[shadow_scholar]

ShadowGhost brings up an interesting question. First, it isn't exactly clarified how a Smartlink works, I just understand it as a crosshair or dot showing what you're pointing at, but how does it really work? Does it have a lower quality rangefinding feature? So that it could detect the range to target and objects in 3D and place that crosshair where that object is in space? What I'm getting at is that we all assume you're going to firing with your gun straight in front of you, like you were using a regular sight, but what happens when you don't line up your eye with the weapon? Will the Smartlink make adjustments for difference of perspective of your eye and the perspective of where the gun is pointed? Will it adjust for objects in 3D that are either closer or further away? Obviously this problem is automatically solved when you're using a laser sight, the laser will stop when it hits a solid object, using natural physics to adjust for how far or close objects are, but do Smartlinks work the same way? If not, man, that leads me to believe that lasersights truly are better than Smartlinks and the rules are terribly skewed. And if Smartlinks do work the same way then that would lead me to believe that a Smartlink truly isn't effective when trying to target an object with Improved Invisibility. It seems to me that a lasersight would be ineffective also because it would just pass through the invisible person and hit the next solid object behind them, and there's no telling how far away that background object could be.

Man, I hope all that made sense to somebody.

[Dawnshadow]

Smartlinks, from how I understood them, extrapolate where there bullet will impact.

They don't need to line up with the eye -- they operate solely from the gun itself, transfered via the induction and displayed. If the person can in no way physically see the target, then they won't give any real benefit, but for anything else, then yes, they should give the benefit.

Laser sights are good, but they don't compensate for the downward force exerted on the bullets -- they do sink. That's why normal rifle sights are calibrated for distance.. to get the same affect on a laser sight, you have to angle it.. and the sight becomes fairly useless when not shooting horizontally (or whichever angle you calculated) unless you take it into account.

Personal belief: a normal smartlink determines the straight-line trajectory of the gun, including angle and so on. Smartlink 2 + rangefinder calculates the bullet 'sink', including the angle of the gun.

All of that being said: Given that particular explanation how smartlinks work, when you know where the target is, can see the target (but not perfectly), you can use the smartlink and astral perception both. Astral perception means you know where the target is, beyond just the indistinct target in the dark or thermographics.. and the smartlink lets you put the bullet right where you want it.

[shadow_scholar]

But if the target is Improved Invisible, and the only way you can see them is via astral perception, would the Smartlink automatically put the bullet impact somewhere behind the intended invisible target, like at a wall behind them, or something in the distance? Thereby rendering the Smartlink possibly useless, if you're not lining up the gun sights with your eye, and depending upon the situation? The way I see it is that the Smartlink will only work off of physical information, like normal vision, thermographic, or low light, and that it can't get the visual information it needs only from astral perception, because the two just don't vibe. Which means that, unless you line up the gun sights like you would normally aim, the smartlink could be useless when dealing with someone cloaked with Improved Invisibility.