 Magician Adept?, IMBA? |
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 Apr 26 2005, 06:58 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318  |
If you pay 30 points for Magic, you can create a Magician Adept.
If you purchase 6 points of Magic, then you get 36 (6*6) spellpoints to buy spells for. If you buy this power with a Talisman Geas you pay only 4,5 points. Now you have a magician, who can both conjure, use sorcery and has 1,5 powerpoints left to buy other adept powers. You also have more initial spellpoints to buy spells with, than a full mage. The price you pay is inability to astral project, and you have to chose between Power or Metamagic at initiations, you can't get both like other initiates. Saving the 1,5 powerpoints and initiating three times, and taking the Improved Initiative lvl 3, with another Taliman Geas costs you 3,75 points. You now have a good wizard with +6 reaction and +3d6 Initiative dice. What do you think? - Balanced or IMBA? |
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Apr 26 2005, 07:14 AM
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#2
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Remember that the Adept of the Magical Way also cannot automatically Perceive Astrally without purchasing the Adept Power.
In my experience, most people feel this is not correct. The canon wording is misleading, resulting in the totally screwed FAQ ruling. As for balanced ... Talisman Geasa suck, but whatever rocks your boat. There are other ways to achieve pretty much the same type of character. |
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Apr 26 2005, 07:28 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
What??
You do not think the Talisman Geasa are the most practical and powerful? :dead: Who is ever going to take that ring away from you. They can pry it from your dead cold hands. - Nothing stops you from having a spare ring, of the same type, in your drawer back home. Its pretty easy to replace the talisman, and there are very, very, few situations while shadowrunning where you will lose a talisman. - Unless you pick a flimsy necklace or something.. :D |
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Apr 26 2005, 08:07 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Germany Member No.: 2,102 |
The drawback is, that if you loose a magic Point, you can't use a geas to offset it, since you can only use one geas per magic point.
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Apr 26 2005, 08:15 AM
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#5
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Of course not. A condition geas is better. Like "when awake". 8) |
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Apr 26 2005, 08:17 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
No, thats not true. The geasa you take to get the power cheaper, is connected to the specific power. The geasa you take to protect against Magic loss is tied to your magic rating. Remove one, or the other, and you are diminished, but they do work in concert. It also specifically states that the geasa you take on your powers, can be the same for multiple powers. Thus you can have a talisman tied to the rebate for all your powers, and another to offset a magicpoint loss from cyberware or injury. My question is, do you find the Magician Adept balanced as he is? |
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Apr 26 2005, 08:18 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: 11-April 05 From: Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 7,323 |
sorry noob to the forums...
IMBA? what's that? and it seems to me, that if a GM really wanted to be a dick and totally make your character worthless he could just take your talismen away. One simple example is, hey you just got hit with two narcoject darts, resist 6D stun with BOdy, twice... probably not gonna do so hot... once your knocked out, and you get captured, they take your rings, for one of two reasons, 1)it's prudent to remove everything from a captured shadowrunner, who knows what this guy can do, maybe he is a mage with a Power Focus??? 2) they have a mage look in the astral and bam, he see your talisman and they take it off of you. So in this situation, unless you have it up your *ss for some odball reason, you are going to lose all of your powers.... just my thoughts on the character idea amadeus |
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Apr 26 2005, 09:02 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 437 Joined: 11-April 05 Member No.: 7,318 |
IMBA = Imbalanced, usually in the context where something makes a game less enjoyable to everyone else, because of its IMBA'ness :)
But the build does have its weaknesses. A true mage fx. would be a much more powerful spellcaster with 3 initiate grades. - Masking, spell turning etc. and a magic of 9, allowing highpowered spells. But compared to other adepts and streetsams, I do not see any drawbacks to being this kind of adept vs. a phys adept. - One uses boosted powers, but the other has access to spells such as ability buffs and levitate, invisibility etc. Overall he is much more versatile. This is where I was wondering if any of you have had such a character in your party, and whether it felt too selfreliant/powerful? |
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Apr 26 2005, 11:21 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Lots less powerful then a mage for spellcasting -- lower spell pool (it's tied to effective magic for spellcasting). Likewise, less powerful then an adept -- power points and skill points directed to magic.
That being said: they're even more of a karma sink then the rest of the awakened.. since every initiation goes to spellcasting or adept, so to increase both, it takes two initiations. There's more stats and skills that need boosted as well, to keep everything balanced. And the astral perception power is a must -- I didn't get it on mine, and it's causing serious trouble more often then not. You can't target things because your ally spirit says they're there. Now.. looking at your particular spread: I'm not sure if I'd call that versatile. You've got much higher initiative then a full mage, but you're far less versatile then the full mage, and less powerful then said full mage, and nothing compared to most adepts. The advantage of magician's way adepts is in more than just initiative.. ignoring the rest of the powers (improved sense is amazingly helpful, so is pain resistance, just to name a few) is taking a serious handicap. Improved ability could be amazing. GM opinions: Improved Ability (sorcery)? |
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Apr 26 2005, 01:13 PM
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#10
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Why would the spell pool be lower? If he was using Magical Ability 6 to calculate spell pool, there would be no different from if he was using his true Magic of 6 (provided that he did not get implants). |
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Apr 26 2005, 01:18 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Oops.. almost always lower spell pool. Same spell pool this case.. and in one really insane case, it's potentially higher. (8 points of magic power under a geas)
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Apr 26 2005, 06:35 PM
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#12
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Unless my math is off, initiating 3 times is going to eat up almost all your starting spell points. You won't have much left for spells. You could buy more spell points, but that'd require a higher Resources priority, leaving you light on attributes and skills.
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Apr 26 2005, 08:06 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
[edit-wrong thread]
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Apr 26 2005, 08:45 PM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Ironically Magician's Way taking Magical Power (6) you get 6*6=36 spell points, and could actually initiate 3 times (which requires something like 31 points minimun i think) at character creation before pumping extra cash in. This is more spell points that full or aspected mages receive before purchacing extra with cash. |
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Apr 26 2005, 08:55 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Sorry, can't see the point in this at all. I may be being dense, but your going to have no spells to use if your going the initiatory path (or very few).
Why not just be an Aspected or Full mage and actually be able to sling some spells? And if I was GM'ing, I certainly wouldn't allow it, seems a bit too twinky for me... |
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Apr 26 2005, 10:04 PM
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#16
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I can. As a Magician Adept without Astral Perception, you cannot remove astral signatures from your own spellcasting, the only thing viable is therefore spell defense. However instead of initiating, I'd pump those spell points into bonding some wicked weapon focus. |
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Apr 27 2005, 01:40 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Huh? Thats an academical point, seeing as you don't have any spells to need to remove the astral signature...And why does not being able to remove the signature suddenly make you non-viable? As long as your not firing off high force spells all the time, your signature is going to fade fairly quickly. Your spells are a bit like a sammies big gun, as long as you use them sparingly, your not going to encounter too many problems. Now the Weapon Focus, I can see a point in, but only with a lot more of your Power Points available, not going max spell points from the Magicians Way... |
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Apr 27 2005, 01:53 PM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Four words ... Not a fucking chance! |
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Apr 27 2005, 02:02 PM
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#19
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Because bonding a Weapon Foci using spell points is far easier than doing so with karma, IMO. Because he is not spending spell points for spells, then he is better served by having a Magic rating as low as possible - high Magic = also certain Magic loss from a physical Deadly wound. |
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Apr 27 2005, 03:57 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
I accepted the Weapon Focus was viable. Its the idea of going straight for three initiatory grades with little or no spells thats baffling me... |
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Apr 27 2005, 04:28 PM
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#21
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
No kidding. Here are the costs for gaining Initiate Grades, divided by group/ordeal:
Unless the GM is allowing group initiation at character generation (Ick!), 3 Initiate grades doesn't seem very likely, in terms of spell points. |
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Apr 27 2005, 04:33 PM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Given the previously taken example of taking six points, thats 36 spell points. So, with three initiations, thats...5 points for spells if we take the most extreme examples, and you'd have to be a fruit loop GM to allow someone to be part of an Initiatory Group and have succsessfully completed three ordeals at creation...
Correct me if Im wrong, but whats in it for the group? "Yeah, we'll give this guy access to all our resources and magical power. That Force 5 spell might come in handy at some point..." |
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Apr 27 2005, 04:56 PM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
There are plenty of reasons why you may have initiated with a group before char gen. you won’t necessarily still have contact with the group however (did you buy it as a contact) the default explanation would be ex wage mage using corporate initiatory group.
I think you don’t have enough spell points however for spells, if you have initiated 3 times focusing so heavily on magical power you should have some spells between. You can mess around with exclusive and fetish spells to round out your repetwar but you need a few more powerful spells. A single initiation is all I think you could justify. Edward |
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Apr 27 2005, 05:04 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
One Initiation Grade, maybe, but anymore and you'd have to have a seriously good explanation as to why the Mage/Shaman has been allowed to leave by a Corp who have spent so much money on them... |
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Apr 27 2005, 05:10 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
Then, as a GM, I would fiat that the first 2 ordeals would have been Oath and Thesis. The corp group would logically take those to keep their new guys in line. By leaving the corp, you've broken your oath, and the initiatory group (who's kinda peeved at you) now has a ritual link... |
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