Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Magician Adept?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3
weblife
If you pay 30 points for Magic, you can create a Magician Adept.

If you purchase 6 points of Magic, then you get 36 (6*6) spellpoints to buy spells for.

If you buy this power with a Talisman Geas you pay only 4,5 points.

Now you have a magician, who can both conjure, use sorcery and has 1,5 powerpoints left to buy other adept powers.

You also have more initial spellpoints to buy spells with, than a full mage.

The price you pay is inability to astral project, and you have to chose between Power or Metamagic at initiations, you can't get both like other initiates.

Saving the 1,5 powerpoints and initiating three times, and taking the Improved Initiative lvl 3, with another Taliman Geas costs you 3,75 points.

You now have a good wizard with +6 reaction and +3d6 Initiative dice.

What do you think? - Balanced or IMBA?
Fortune
QUOTE (weblife)
The price you pay is inability to astral project ...


Remember that the Adept of the Magical Way also cannot automatically Perceive Astrally without purchasing the Adept Power.

QUOTE
and you have to chose between Power or Metamagic at initiations, you can't get both like other initiates.


In my experience, most people feel this is not correct. The canon wording is misleading, resulting in the totally screwed FAQ ruling.

As for balanced ... Talisman Geasa suck, but whatever rocks your boat. There are other ways to achieve pretty much the same type of character.
weblife
What??

You do not think the Talisman Geasa are the most practical and powerful? dead.gif

Who is ever going to take that ring away from you. They can pry it from your dead cold hands. - Nothing stops you from having a spare ring, of the same type, in your drawer back home.

Its pretty easy to replace the talisman, and there are very, very, few situations while shadowrunning where you will lose a talisman. - Unless you pick a flimsy necklace or something.. biggrin.gif
Nemo
The drawback is, that if you loose a magic Point, you can't use a geas to offset it, since you can only use one geas per magic point.
toturi
QUOTE (weblife)
What??

You do not think the Talisman Geasa are the most practical and powerful? dead.gif

Of course not. A condition geas is better. Like "when awake". cool.gif
weblife
QUOTE (Nemo)
The drawback is, that if you loose a magic Point, you can't use a geas to offset it, since you can only use one geas per magic point.

No, thats not true.

The geasa you take to get the power cheaper, is connected to the specific power.

The geasa you take to protect against Magic loss is tied to your magic rating.

Remove one, or the other, and you are diminished, but they do work in concert.

It also specifically states that the geasa you take on your powers, can be the same for multiple powers.

Thus you can have a talisman tied to the rebate for all your powers, and another to offset a magicpoint loss from cyberware or injury.

My question is, do you find the Magician Adept balanced as he is?
amadeus
sorry noob to the forums...

IMBA? what's that?

and it seems to me, that if a GM really wanted to be a dick and totally make your character worthless he could just take your talismen away.

One simple example is, hey you just got hit with two narcoject darts, resist 6D stun with BOdy, twice... probably not gonna do so hot... once your knocked out, and you get captured, they take your rings, for one of two reasons,

1)it's prudent to remove everything from a captured shadowrunner, who knows what this guy can do, maybe he is a mage with a Power Focus???

2) they have a mage look in the astral and bam, he see your talisman and they take it off of you.

So in this situation, unless you have it up your *ss for some odball reason, you are going to lose all of your powers....

just my thoughts on the character idea
amadeus
weblife
IMBA = Imbalanced, usually in the context where something makes a game less enjoyable to everyone else, because of its IMBA'ness smile.gif

But the build does have its weaknesses. A true mage fx. would be a much more powerful spellcaster with 3 initiate grades. - Masking, spell turning etc. and a magic of 9, allowing highpowered spells.

But compared to other adepts and streetsams, I do not see any drawbacks to being this kind of adept vs. a phys adept. - One uses boosted powers, but the other has access to spells such as ability buffs and levitate, invisibility etc.

Overall he is much more versatile. This is where I was wondering if any of you have had such a character in your party, and whether it felt too selfreliant/powerful?



Dawnshadow
Lots less powerful then a mage for spellcasting -- lower spell pool (it's tied to effective magic for spellcasting). Likewise, less powerful then an adept -- power points and skill points directed to magic.

That being said: they're even more of a karma sink then the rest of the awakened.. since every initiation goes to spellcasting or adept, so to increase both, it takes two initiations. There's more stats and skills that need boosted as well, to keep everything balanced. And the astral perception power is a must -- I didn't get it on mine, and it's causing serious trouble more often then not. You can't target things because your ally spirit says they're there.


Now.. looking at your particular spread: I'm not sure if I'd call that versatile. You've got much higher initiative then a full mage, but you're far less versatile then the full mage, and less powerful then said full mage, and nothing compared to most adepts. The advantage of magician's way adepts is in more than just initiative.. ignoring the rest of the powers (improved sense is amazingly helpful, so is pain resistance, just to name a few) is taking a serious handicap. Improved ability could be amazing.

GM opinions: Improved Ability (sorcery)?
toturi
QUOTE (Dawnshadow)
Lots less powerful then a mage for spellcasting -- lower spell pool (it's tied to effective magic for spellcasting). Likewise, less powerful then an adept -- power points and skill points directed to magic.

Why would the spell pool be lower? If he was using Magical Ability 6 to calculate spell pool, there would be no different from if he was using his true Magic of 6 (provided that he did not get implants).
Dawnshadow
Oops.. almost always lower spell pool. Same spell pool this case.. and in one really insane case, it's potentially higher. (8 points of magic power under a geas)
Cain
Unless my math is off, initiating 3 times is going to eat up almost all your starting spell points. You won't have much left for spells. You could buy more spell points, but that'd require a higher Resources priority, leaving you light on attributes and skills.
Apathy
[edit-wrong thread]
blakkie
QUOTE (Cain @ Apr 26 2005, 12:35 PM)
Unless my math is off, initiating 3 times is going to eat up almost all your starting spell points.  You won't have much left for spells.  You could buy more spell points, but that'd require a higher Resources priority, leaving you light on attributes and skills.

Ironically Magician's Way taking Magical Power (6) you get 6*6=36 spell points, and could actually initiate 3 times (which requires something like 31 points minimun i think) at character creation before pumping extra cash in.

This is more spell points that full or aspected mages receive before purchacing extra with cash.
The Question
Sorry, can't see the point in this at all. I may be being dense, but your going to have no spells to use if your going the initiatory path (or very few).

Why not just be an Aspected or Full mage and actually be able to sling some spells?

And if I was GM'ing, I certainly wouldn't allow it, seems a bit too twinky for me...
toturi
QUOTE (The Question)
Sorry, can't see the point in this at all. I may be being dense, but your going to have no spells to use if your going the initiatory path (or very few).

Why not just be an Aspected or Full mage and actually be able to sling some spells?

And if I was GM'ing, I certainly wouldn't allow it, seems a bit too twinky for me...

I can. As a Magician Adept without Astral Perception, you cannot remove astral signatures from your own spellcasting, the only thing viable is therefore spell defense. However instead of initiating, I'd pump those spell points into bonding some wicked weapon focus.
The Question
QUOTE (toturi)
I can. As a Magician Adept without Astral Perception, you cannot remove astral signatures from your own spellcasting, the only thing viable is therefore spell defense. However instead of initiating, I'd pump those spell points into bonding some wicked weapon focus.

Huh? Thats an academical point, seeing as you don't have any spells to need to remove the astral signature...And why does not being able to remove the signature suddenly make you non-viable? As long as your not firing off high force spells all the time, your signature is going to fade fairly quickly. Your spells are a bit like a sammies big gun, as long as you use them sparingly, your not going to encounter too many problems.

Now the Weapon Focus, I can see a point in, but only with a lot more of your Power Points available, not going max spell points from the Magicians Way...
Fortune
QUOTE (Dawnshadow)
GM opinions: Improved Ability (sorcery)?

Four words ...

Not a fucking chance!
toturi
QUOTE (The Question)
Huh? Thats an academical point, seeing as you don't have any spells to need to remove the astral signature...And why does not being able to remove the signature suddenly make you non-viable? As long as your not firing off high force spells all the time, your signature is going to fade fairly quickly. Your spells are a bit like a sammies big gun, as long as you use them sparingly, your not going to encounter too many problems.

Now the Weapon Focus, I can see a point in, but only with a lot more of your Power Points available, not going max spell points from the Magicians Way...

Because bonding a Weapon Foci using spell points is far easier than doing so with karma, IMO. Because he is not spending spell points for spells, then he is better served by having a Magic rating as low as possible - high Magic = also certain Magic loss from a physical Deadly wound.
The Question
QUOTE (toturi)
Because bonding a Weapon Foci using spell points is far easier than doing so with karma, IMO. Because he is not spending spell points for spells, then he is better served by having a Magic rating as low as possible - high Magic = also certain Magic loss from a physical Deadly wound.

I accepted the Weapon Focus was viable. Its the idea of going straight for three initiatory grades with little or no spells thats baffling me...
hahnsoo
QUOTE (The Question)
QUOTE (toturi)
Because bonding a Weapon Foci using spell points is far easier than doing so with karma, IMO. Because he is not spending spell points for spells, then he is better served by having a Magic rating as low as possible - high Magic = also certain Magic loss from a physical Deadly wound.

I accepted the Weapon Focus was viable. Its the idea of going straight for three initiatory grades with little or no spells thats baffling me...

No kidding. Here are the costs for gaining Initiate Grades, divided by group/ordeal:
CODE
Initiate Grade   1    2    3    4    5
Solo, No Ordeal  18   21   24   27   30
Solo, Ordeal     15   17   20   22   25
Group, No Ordeal 12   14   16   18   20
Group, Ordeal    9    10   12   13   15

Unless the GM is allowing group initiation at character generation (Ick!), 3 Initiate grades doesn't seem very likely, in terms of spell points.
The Question
Given the previously taken example of taking six points, thats 36 spell points. So, with three initiations, thats...5 points for spells if we take the most extreme examples, and you'd have to be a fruit loop GM to allow someone to be part of an Initiatory Group and have succsessfully completed three ordeals at creation...

Correct me if Im wrong, but whats in it for the group?

"Yeah, we'll give this guy access to all our resources and magical power. That Force 5 spell might come in handy at some point..."
Edward
There are plenty of reasons why you may have initiated with a group before char gen. you wonít necessarily still have contact with the group however (did you buy it as a contact) the default explanation would be ex wage mage using corporate initiatory group.

I think you donít have enough spell points however for spells, if you have initiated 3 times focusing so heavily on magical power you should have some spells between. You can mess around with exclusive and fetish spells to round out your repetwar but you need a few more powerful spells.

A single initiation is all I think you could justify.

Edward
The Question
QUOTE (Edward)
There are plenty of reasons why you may have initiated with a group before char gen. you wonít necessarily still have contact with the group however (did you buy it as a contact) the default explanation would be ex wage mage using corporate initiatory group.


One Initiation Grade, maybe, but anymore and you'd have to have a seriously good explanation as to why the Mage/Shaman has been allowed to leave by a Corp who have spent so much money on them...
Apathy
QUOTE
the default explanation would be ex wage mage using corporate initiatory group.

Then, as a GM, I would fiat that the first 2 ordeals would have been Oath and Thesis. The corp group would logically take those to keep their new guys in line. By leaving the corp, you've broken your oath, and the initiatory group (who's kinda peeved at you) now has a ritual link...
The Question
QUOTE (Apathy)
QUOTE
the default explanation would be ex wage mage using corporate initiatory group.

Then, as a GM, I would fiat that the first 2 ordeals would have been Oath and Thesis. The corp group would logically take those to keep their new guys in line. By leaving the corp, you've broken your oath, and the initiatory group (who's kinda peeved at you) now has a ritual link...

Why would you be worried? Youve got your trusty Force 5 Power Bolt afterall...
Apathy
I don't have my books handy here at work. When you break your oath (or destroy your thesis), do you just lose the extra magic point, or do you lose the meta-magic as well?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Apathy)
I don't have my books handy here at work. When you break your oath (or destroy your thesis), do you just lose the extra magic point, or do you lose the meta-magic as well?

You just check for Magic Loss (MitS, p62), as if you had taken a deadly wound.
Edward
The points rased go together nicely.

The annoyance of the corp fits nicely with the fact that every SR character has enemies based on resources if the character has low resources then an additional extra enemy flaw should be taken (gaining appropriate points) to represent the annoyed corporation.

The first ordeal would almost certainly be oath which yes is broken, I would not insist the magic point be lost for this (in play it would have bee random) but the character may not gain a reduced karma cost for another oath ordeal.

The second would not necessarily be thesis, writing a thesis is not a quick think (my chars usually take 3 months, possibly with a break for a run) and if the thesis is not expected to be useful as a research work another ordeal would be preferable and a blood or tissue sample taken as a material link. In either case it is plausible that the ritual liken could have been stolen destroyed or misfiled. Wether the corporation is still in position of a material link to the character would be determined by the enemy corporations knowledge rating more than any other factor.

Edward
The Question
Destroying a Thesis causes you to lose a Magic point. Theres no actual losses involved in breaking an Oath, however these are tied into the groups Strictures, and they will know that youve broken one. If they decide to kick you out of the group, or you decide to leave voluntarily, and youve made an Oath, you check for Magic loss.

Either way, you've pissed off a group of high level mages with corporate backing. In other words, your dead...
The Question
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 27 2005, 12:44 PM)
The second would not necessarily be thesis, writing a thesis is not a quick think (my chars usually take 3 months, possibly with a break for a run) and if the thesis is not expected to be useful as a research work another ordeal would be preferable and a blood or tissue sample taken as a material link. In either case it is plausible that the ritual liken could have been stolen destroyed or misfiled. Wether the corporation is still in position of a material link to the character would be determined by the enemy corporations knowledge rating more than any other factor.

Base time for a Thesis is 30 days, and your making a test against target number 6 with your highest rated active Magical skill.

Could have been stolen, misfiled or destroyed? Your telling me that a Corporate Initiatory Group powerful enough to get someone up to level 3 would be so incompetent as to lose or misfile a ritual link for someone who has not made a Magical Thesis? There is some serious stretching of credulility going on here...

To have quit a group of this nature, youve tsted for magic loss straight off the bat. Youve probably lost a point of Magic, because I'd imagine a Corp group would demand a thesis, unless this is an uncharacteristicly nice corporation. And this group has a ritual link to you, and very probably dont want you walking around telling people about their deep dark secrets.

Basically, you and your team are going to face corporate hit squads, or if the group is trying to cover their asses and dont want their sponsors to find out what an ass hat they let in, their going to come after you personally.

Again, your life is either extremely difficult, or you get a ritual spell pumped into you while your asleep...
Nikoli
So, your thrid initiation you alter your signature, thesis no longer acts as link.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Nikoli)
So, your thrid initiation you alter your signature, thesis no longer acts as link.

Altering a signature removes ritual links? I thought it just prevented people from identifying your magic based on your astral signature.
The Question
QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Apr 27 2005, 01:00 PM)
QUOTE (Nikoli @ Apr 27 2005, 12:57 PM)
So, your thrid initiation you alter your signature, thesis no longer acts as link.

Altering a signature removes ritual links? I thought it just prevented people from identifying your magic based on your astral signature.

Indeed, changing your signature does not stop someone from using your thesis as a Ritual Link.

All they need is a sample of your dna, a foci that was bound to you, or your thesis. I would expect any corp based group to have at least two, if not all three, of these on hand to bite you in the ass if you ever tried to screw them over.
Nikoli
How do you think it changes your signature? That's how the link exists, it's a link to your signature. Now, DNA will screw you, as it should.
The Question
QUOTE (Nikoli)
How do you think it changes your signature?† That's how the link exists, it's a link to your signature.† Now, DNA will screw you, as it should.

Youve still put part of your magical energy into the thesis: its inherently linked to you, in the same way as focuses. Are you saying that changing your astral signature automically turns off all your bonded focuses? Your astral signature, as I see it, is the echo you leave behind, the magical footprint you leave on the world. By changing your shoes, you change your footprint, and thus become harder to track. However, your thesis represents your foot. You can chop it off to stop people using it to track you down, but they have ownership of your foot, and arent going to be too happy to see you...

A bad analogy, I know, but it puts my point across spin.gif

QUOTE (SR3 @ page172)
The inherent signature of magical things like existing spells, spirits and foci cannot be erased.
hahnsoo
You don't get "links" to your signature. An astral signature is merely an astral imprint that is left on all magical activities that any particular mage does (including enchanting, sorcery, and conjuring). A Thesis would have both your astral signature AND a ritual link to you. If you change your astral signature through initiation, the link still remains.

You can take ritual links and "hide" the link on a metaplane (MitS, p94). But that's about as far as you can go to prevent ritual sorcery. Of course, this isn't to suggest that changing your astral signature is a bad idea... ALL of those mages will be very familiar with your signature, and thus it would be a good idea to change it.
Nikoli
Well, there's my nugget of knowledge for the day, thanks.
Cain
Don't forget that joining a Magical Group costs you 3 spell points/karma. So, if a GM is silly enough to allow someone to have 3 group initiations with ordeal, pre-game, then the character would start with a whopping 2 spell points.
fistandantilus4.0
Magicians- way's are pretty easy to balance.
1) don't allow pre-game initiation. nasty can of worms, especially when you start figuring in groups and ordeals.

2) use the magic point OR metamagic rule. Keeps them from becoming all things in one

3) why use the adept power for improved reflexes? Quicken it. yes, it can be dispelled, but doesn't waste power points.

And yeah, I suppose technically you could use imp ablty - sorcery, but I wouldn't allow it. That's like using the exceptional ability edge for firearms skills, or melee.

BTW< where does it state that magicians way adepts need to purchase asatral perception. I don't doubt that it does, because I've learned to respect Hahnsoo's book-fu, but it doens't make nuch sense to me. IMO, a caster would need to be able to perceive the mana to manipulate it.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Apr 28 2005, 12:02 AM)
And yeah, I suppose technically you could use imp ablty - sorcery, but I wouldn't allow it. That's like using the exceptional ability edge for firearms skills, or melee.

Actually, you can't get Improved Ability: Magical Skill without house ruling it, just like you can't get Improved Ability: Technical Skill. Improved Ability is only applicable on Physical Skills, Combat Skills, B/R Skills, Artistic/Performance Skills, Social Skills, and Vehicle Skills.

Technically, you can't get Improved Ability: Laser Weapons according to the table, but I think this is an error of omission more than actual canon.
QUOTE
BTW< where does it state that magicians way adepts need to purchase asatral perception. I don't doubt that it does, because I've learned to respect Hahnsoo's book-fu, but it doens't make nuch sense to me. IMO, a caster would need to be able to perceive the mana to manipulate it.

From MitS, p24:
QUOTE
Magician adepts begin without access to astral space. They may purchase and use the power of astral perception normally but can never use astral projection.

Of course, this is augmented by the "Limited Astral Projection" metamagic in SOTA:2064.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (hahnsoo)

Of course, this is augmented by the "Limited Astral Projection" metamagic in SOTA:2064.

Still doesn't make any sense to me that they should n't have the ability to see the mana they are manipulating. It sure would limit their initial power even more. BUt it doesn't make sense, IMO.

As always, I bow to your book-fu
Mortax
Sorcery adepts can't astrally percive, but they can still cast.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Mortax)
Sorcery adepts can't astrally percive, but they can still cast.

Not true anymore. All aspected mages can astrally perceive.

The way I see Magician's Way adepts is that they have more of an "innate" ability to chuck spells. Just as one doesn't need to astrally perceive to cast a spell, a Magician's Way adept can cast spells just as easily as the next spellcaster. With my current character (a Magician's Way adept), I wrote a story about his training where he couldn't learn magic as well as his peers because he couldn't astrally perceive. It's an interesting roleplaying point well worth exploring.
fistandantilus4.0
which sort of explains his lack of magical power in terms of spell casting. interesting point of view actually
weblife
QUOTE
1) don't allow pre-game initiation. nasty can of worms, especially when you start figuring in groups and ordeals.


Agree, this would never be allowed in our group.

QUOTE
2) use the magic point OR metamagic rule. Keeps them from becoming all things in one


I was made aware of this earlier, and I went astudying of the canon. A normal Adept who initiates, recieves 1 Magic Point = 1 Power Point AND recieves 1 Metamagic Ability, he has 3 to choose from.

The small bit about the Magician Adept is written like this; The adept may choose between an extra Power Point or a Metamagic.

In conclusion, this means there are now 4 "packages" to chose from when initiating:

1. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + Metamagic

2. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + Signature Change

3. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + 1 Power Point MORE

4. Remove 1 Geas

Option three is only available to Magician Adepts, I have found no reference to this option being available for normal Adepts.

I believe they have chosen to do this, to allow the Magician Adept to both raise his Magical Power aswell as gain some Adept powers. - You cannot have a Power rated higher than your Magic, so Magical Power can only go up by 1 point pr. initiation anyway.

As established earlier the Magician Adept is at first glance a karma sink. But this interpretation of the rules makes sense in that regard. And I'm pretty sure I have the rules interpreted correctly.

QUOTE
3) why use the adept power for improved reflexes? Quicken it. yes, it can be dispelled, but doesn't waste power points.


The spell Improved Reflexes has been houserule nerfed in our group. Its no longer a 1 Power wonder spell. Now you have to use Power 6 to get three Dice, and you have to get 6 successes, 2 for each die. - Try masking a Force 6 Sustaining Focus.

Second, barriers rip sustained spells off of you. Adept powers are immune to that and dispelling.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (weblife @ Apr 28 2005, 03:20 AM)
In conclusion, this means there are now 4 "packages" to chose from when initiating:

1. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + Metamagic

2. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + Signature Change

3. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + 1 Power Point MORE

4. Remove 1 Geas

Option three is only available to Magician Adepts, I have found no reference to this option being available for normal Adepts.

I believe they have chosen to do this, to allow the Magician Adept to both raise his Magical Power aswell as gain some Adept powers. - You cannot have a Power rated higher than your Magic, so Magical Power can only go up by 1 point pr. initiation anyway.

This interpretation is overpowered. It's also wrong, according to the Shadowrun FAQ:
QUOTE
When a Magician's Way adept initiates, it says that the adept must choose between obtaining a power point or learning a metamagic technique. But other adepts get both a power point and a metamagic technique when they initiate. Is this correct? Why the difference?
Yes, that is correct. A normal adept (not on the Magician's Way), has these choices for initiation:

    * Raise Magic attribute by 1 + gain a power point + learn a new metamagic technique; or
    * Raise Magic attribute by 1 + gain a power point + alter astral signature; or
    * Shed a geas.

When an adept on the Magician's Way initiates, the adept has these choices:

    * Raise Magic attribute by 1 + gain a power point; or
    * Raise Magic attribute by 1 + learn a new metamagic technique; or
    * Raise Magic attribute by 1 + alter astral signature; or
    * Shed a geas.

Magician's Way adepts initiate differently because unlike regular adepts and magicians, they receive the advantages of both worlds. The modified initiation rules prevent them from becoming unbalanced and overpowered.
If you want to play it so they get an uber-amount of power points, then go right ahead. But using those rules, there's no reason NOT to play a Magician's Way adept. There is some dispute, as stated earlier in the thread, as to the interpretation of the rules and the FAQ, but the ability to gain two Power Points per initiation just sounds too good to pass up.
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (weblife)


3. One Magic Point (= 1 Power Point for Adepts) + 1 Power Point MORE

you sure about that? I don't see any justification for them to gain power points effectively twice as fast as a regular adept. Am I somehow reading that wrong?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when say, a phys ad initiates, he gets powerpoint. Pretty straight forward. The Magicians was can effectively get two? Is this applying solely as spell casting power? Doesn't seem right. Page quote to soothe my worried mind?
Fortune
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Still doesn't make any sense to me that they should n't have the ability to see the mana they are manipulating. It sure would limit their initial power even more. BUt it doesn't make sense, IMO.

The point is that Magician's Way Adepts are still Adepts, and follow those rules. No other Adepts ( Sorcerers and Conjurers are not considered Adepts in SR3) get Astral Percetion automatically. Magical Power is an Adept Power, just as Astral Perception. There is no requirement to be able to see Astrally in order to either cast spells or conjure.
Fortune
As for MW Adepts and Initiation, I treat them as I would normal Adepts (as listed above). What they do with the Power Point is up to them.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012