 Adepts and Initiation, Is this right? |
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  Apr 29 2005, 12:29 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166  |
Okay, I posted this observation in the Magicians Way thread, but it seemed to get a little lost so I'll repost it here. Looking at the table posted by hahnsoo (which is below if you hadn't noticed) we can see the various costs for Initiation...
Now, seeing as buying a Power Point on its own costs 20 Good Karma, how the heck do these numbers balance out? A self-initiated Adept can reach third-grade Initiatory level before the costs actually surpass what he would be paying just for the Power Point. So he's basically getting a Metamagic plus increases to Astral abilities if he's taken those powers for free. Even at the worst possible Karma cost, our Adept is paying effectively -2 Karma for his Power Point, and just one more at his second level for a Metamagic. And when we start factoring in groups, things just go crazy. He can gain FOUR initiatory grades for the same price as two Power Points (give or take 4 Karma). Surely this is a little imblancing? What benefits are there in just taking a Power Point when you get one far cheaper by initiating AND get added powers as well. Mages still have to buy their spells, why do Adepts get things for free? |
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Apr 29 2005, 12:38 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
Because the 'Buy additional power points' rules otherwise leave adepts gimped compared to most other character types?
Or perhaps (more likely), because the option to buy additional power points is there to allow adepts to advance in power even if the GM doesn't have or use the initiation rules. Also note that the 'buy more power points' rule is not that nice to adepts - it gives them more power points, and hence more versatility, but it doesn't raise their magic attribute: which means that while they may have 9 pp worth of powers (after spending 60 karma), they can still only use 6pp worth at a time... (I could be misremembering, however...) |
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Apr 29 2005, 12:42 PM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The rules for purchasing a Power Point are presented in the core book, and are technically for use in games where Initiation is not available (since Initiation is not included in the core book). In general, if Initiation is included in the game, then the Power Point rules are not used. Of course, some do people incorporate both.
If both are used, then it is worth the Adept's while to Initiate for a couple of Grades, and then just puchase Power Points for 20 Karma. |
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Apr 29 2005, 12:54 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Unless they are in a group, in which case it is never preferrable. That said, I had forgotten that MitS came out after BBB, my bad! I suppose that makes sense then, as the two options quite simply don't corrolate together at all. A note in MitS saying that Adept initiation supercedes the original rule would have been handy though... |
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Apr 29 2005, 01:00 PM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
For what it's worth, this is what the FAQ has to say on the subject ...
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Apr 29 2005, 01:02 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
Actually, even if the Adept is in a group, it becomes preferable to buy the power points after the 5th Grade of initiation or so (after 5 initiations, you might have trouble getting your GM to let you go for another *fill-in-the-blank* ordeal...)...
Even with the Ordeal, once you get past the 6th or 7th initiation, that flat 20 karma/pp starts to look sweet. |
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Apr 29 2005, 01:03 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 15-September 03 From: Worcester, MA Member No.: 5,621 |
The other disadvantage to not initiating and instead buying power points is the maximum level of powers you can have is equal to your magic rating. If you don't raise your magic somehow, then no powers over level 6. So no more than 6 stealth dice, 6 levels of Freefall, whatever the power in question might be.
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Apr 29 2005, 01:08 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Thanks for the clarification Fortune!
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Apr 29 2005, 01:09 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 401 Joined: 7-June 02 From: Living with the straw sheep. Member No.: 2,850 |
I think we touched on that already...
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Apr 29 2005, 01:20 PM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
If both methods are available even with both a group and an ordeal purchasing power points alone becomes viable by about grade 9, buy this stage your magic rating could be as high as 15 so further increases tend to be academic and your probably out of adept meta magic’s to learn
Edward |
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Apr 29 2005, 01:57 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Is SOTA:2064 worth picking up just for the Adept metamagics or are their some equally good fan made ones out there?
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Apr 29 2005, 03:09 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 108 Joined: 15-September 03 From: Worcester, MA Member No.: 5,621 |
The phrasing you used did not, to me, say the same thing I did. If we're repeating each other, it's not like we're really wasting anything but electrons anyway. |
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Apr 29 2005, 04:49 PM
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#13
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
I think SOTA:2064 is worth picking up in general, as the flavor text tells you a ton of information of what happens during the year 2063 (along with a list of Or'zet slang and commonly-used words). Oh, and they have cigarette rockets... nummy. Still, if finding out the adept metamagics is your only goal, I'd just do a search on these boards... lots of rants about the adept powers here. |
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Apr 29 2005, 05:29 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
Well, normally set my games in the 2050's, and cigareete rockets don't really float my boat... |
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Apr 29 2005, 05:33 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It also has half-decent info on the police, and covert (government) agencies.
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Apr 29 2005, 05:52 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 15-March 05 From: Wolverhampton, UK Member No.: 7,166 |
I'll see if I can get it cheap on eBay then, always thought it would be fun to have some Runners tangle with the NSA!
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Apr 29 2005, 08:15 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
SOTA 64is really good for adepts. It lets them do all sort of crazy things, and has a few really good metamagics. I myself am playing adept who would not have been possable not using 64, not so much as is starting out, but what he will later do.
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