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> Coolest Rounds Ever!, Under Persecution!!!
Stev
post May 6 2005, 06:58 PM
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Hey everybody. I have an interesting inquiry. I decided to be clever and make capsule rounds not useless anymore. I was reading through Man and Machine and I came across some interesting compounds. And I decided to make some sexyful rifle rounds that tagged "Entropy Rounds".

These rounds are standard capsule rounds loaded with Splat Glue, Magnesium, and Thermite. The idea? You get shot and tagged with now molten metal which burns through 6 cm of barrier 12 armor and deals 10D per turn. Unfortunately, meh GM is questioning the integrity of said rounds. Initially, they were achieved with the TN of 4.

He decided, after reading that that wouldn't work out, and that the availability would have to be the compounds divided by two plus four. Which equaled 22. Divided by 2 is 11. Plus 4 is fifteen. The exact equal of my initial roll for the Capsule rounds (just one short of anti-vehicle rounds ;-;).

What say you SR gurus to the validity of these super crazy go nuts rounds?
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frostPDP
post May 6 2005, 07:08 PM
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I would say (Being the GM in question of course) that at best you'll be paying a lot for them (and you paid standard capsules), there would definitely be a cap to how many of these you could get at what speed (AKA you might get 10. For a month.), you might have to complete a small story arc (Ex: Do a job for a chemist who will then do the actual chemistry) or any other sort of objective.

Also I'm concerned that, as the stats for Thermite in M&M are per kg (avail, cost, etc) that the 10D damage list is for a kg of the Thermite and not for 1/3rd of a paintball's worth.

So what dost the booklawyerninjas say about this?
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Pthgar
post May 6 2005, 07:12 PM
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You probably don't need the splat glue. Sounds a lot like Willy Peter (White Phosphorus).

[edit] I'd call it 10M for pistol rounds vs. Impact and ignition of flammables. 10S for Shotguns. The Power wouldn't change, because all the penetration comes from the burning thermite.
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Arethusa
post May 6 2005, 07:14 PM
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The availability is silly as hell. Unfortunately, so is the concept.
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Stev
post May 6 2005, 07:19 PM
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<.<; YOUR concept is silly. Sir.
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Arethusa
post May 6 2005, 07:24 PM
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What.
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Smiley
post May 6 2005, 07:24 PM
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Zing. :|
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mfb
post May 6 2005, 08:09 PM
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oooh, he got you good!

anyway. splat glue: not necessary, and not going to help even if it were. the glue will be burned away completely in the first second or so of ignition.

if you're looking for lethality, these rounds should suck. if you're looking to light things on fire, they should do the job (but will do it less well than an actual indcendiary grenade). actually shooting a person with them is pretty much a waste--they'll scream, it'll suck, but they'll probably survive and they might be able to keep shooting back at you. given that a WP grenade does 10L per round of contact, i'd say that these would do 4L per round, and that's only becuase i like the idea of lighting people on fire.

if you want to kill someone, use a bullet. if you want to light things on fire, use an indcendiary or WP grenade.

capsule rounds are far from useless--they're just not really useful for killing people. for KO'ing people without killing them? two narcojet capsule rounds are pocket jesus. for more fun, get some gamma-scop. expensive, but what it doesn't KO out right, it gives horrible modifiers to.

bullets are useless, too--if you're trying to use them to start your car. tools are generally most useful when used for their intended purpose.
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Austere Emancipa...
post May 6 2005, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE (Pthgar)
The Power wouldn't change, because all the penetration comes from the burning thermite.

The amount of thermite is still crucial to the penetration: the more of it is burning, the more heat it puts out and the more is melted by it.

Well-packed thermite will have a density of about 3.5g/cm^3, which will allow you to put less than 3 grams of the stuff inside the average heavy pistol round. You also need a starter mixture to set off the thermite (plastic triethyl aluminum if you can get it, some crappy low-tech solution if you can't) which will take you down to about 2 grams. With an amount that small, you'd be lucky to melt your way through 0.5mm of steel, and burns caused on humans would be very small in size. I mean, you're talking about an amount 1/500th the size of the basic unit for which you find stats in M&M.

You might get as much as 20-30 grams of it into a shotgun shell, but that's still 1/50th - 1/33rd the size of the basic unit. If your intention is to melt down medieval suits of plate mail these might be just the thing for you, but they'd be pretty useless for anything else.

Not to mention the general idiocy of the "Capsule Round". Filled with substances of such low densities, the effective range of any weapon loaded with them would be cut down to less than half and accuracy would be crap.

Oh, and neither the splat glue nor the magnesium serve any purpose there.

[Edit]mfb's post above is more helpful than mine. Also, if you really want to set things on fire with a gun, there are incendiary ammunition on page 38 of the Cannon Companion .[/Edit]
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Pthgar
post May 6 2005, 10:55 PM
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Eh, put a Shiawase Blazer under you Combat Rifle. One of the drawbacks with that though, gotta learn spray weapons.
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Raygun
post May 7 2005, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (Arethusa @ May 6 2005, 07:24 PM)
What.

I think it was something about you not giving props to Nietzsche. :)
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Fortune
post May 7 2005, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE (Pthgar)
Eh, put a Shiawase Blazer under you Combat Rifle. One of the drawbacks with that though, gotta learn spray weapons.

Isn't there a rule whereby the use of underbarrel-mounted weapons can be defaulted to their linked weapon skill (ie Assault Rifle)? Or does that specifically apply only to grenade launchers?
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Arethusa
post May 7 2005, 01:58 AM
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QUOTE (Raygun)
QUOTE (Arethusa @ May 6 2005, 07:24 PM)
What.

I think it was something about you not giving props to Nietzsche. :)

Heh. Yeah, well, most people in this country don't even know that is a Nietzsche aphorism. I might as well switch it to English and start claiming it's mine.

QUOTE (Fortune)
Isn't there a rule whereby the use of underbarrel-mounted weapons can be defaulted to their linked weapon skill (ie Assault Rifle)? Or does that specifically apply only to grenade launchers?

Only grenade launchers. It's somewhere in the CC; can't remember where.
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hahnsoo
post May 7 2005, 02:01 AM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
Isn't there a rule whereby the use of underbarrel-mounted weapons can be defaulted to their linked weapon skill (ie Assault Rifle)? Or does that specifically apply only to grenade launchers?

The skill description of Launch Weapons says it's just underbarrel grenade launchers. There's no equivalent rule under the Flamethrower description.
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Pthgar
post May 7 2005, 02:54 AM
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Well, I didn't know that it was Nietzsche. I'm the product of a sci-fi/fantasy self education. Oh, and my useless history degree.
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frostPDP
post May 7 2005, 03:06 AM
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I object to history degrees being useless.

Unless you plan to teach or do some other such job. Then you're outta luck.
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Raygun
post May 7 2005, 06:15 AM
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QUOTE (Arethusa)
Heh.  Yeah, well, most people in this country don't even know that is a Nietzsche aphorism.

I fear you might be overestimating most people in this country. Most might have heard "Nietzsche" from A Fish Called Wanda. And that's only if they were paying attention. "Aphorism" is right out. :)
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Edward
post May 7 2005, 06:54 AM
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What you really want is thermit rounds, there is no reason to put the thermit in a plastic capsule, considering that capsule is designed to exit the barrel intact you probably wont even light the magnesium.

A bullet made from compressed thermit with a bonding agent to hold it together (similar to the burning bars) would have an effect however, I would make it availability of thermit +4 with twice the base time to acquire and base its mechanics on incendiary rounds increasing the starting power by 3 and damage level buy 1.

As to the utility of capsule rounds, I have them made up custom using the cases from high-C plastic rounds and gama-scopolamine to load into my full ceramic holdout pistol giving me a very good chance of KO in a completely MAD safe package

Edward
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lorthazar
post May 7 2005, 07:13 AM
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I still like my DMSO/Pepper Punch/Hyper combo. The call shot to the eyes or mouth. Trust me the target is going to be in too much pain to do anything. And if he has a pain editor he is still hosed becuase the sinuses with run so badly or the eyes water so much he will be next to useless.
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hahnsoo
post May 7 2005, 07:22 AM
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QUOTE (lorthazar)
I still like my DMSO/Pepper Punch/Hyper combo. The call shot to the eyes or mouth. Trust me the target is going to be in too much pain to do anything. And if he has a pain editor he is still hosed becuase the sinuses with run so badly or the eyes water so much he will be next to useless.

It's not stealthy (the guy will be screaming in pain), requires a harder shot, and not lethal. Why use it, other than frag up mages non-lethally? It sounds like a less effective and more expensive solution than simply plugging the target with a bullet or a simple Narcojet dart. It also sounds like a metagaming solution to a problem (stacking modifiers) when a real-world solution (knocking the target out or eliminating the target with a bullet) would work better.

Not that such a capsule round wouldn't be fun to use, but it sounds a bit too complicated and too specific to use effectively.
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Critias
post May 7 2005, 07:51 AM
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I'm a fan of just, y'know, bullets. Cheaper, get the job done, aren't crazily fantastically unrealistic, aren't as easily traceable as some fancy schmancy custom round...
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Austere Emancipa...
post May 7 2005, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (Edward)
What you really want is thermit rounds, there is no reason to put the thermit in a plastic capsule [...]

The bullet will still need a jacket of some kind, to reduce barrel wear and so that there isn't a lot of iron oxide and aluminum powder residue left in the barrel after each shot.
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Foreigner
post May 7 2005, 12:33 PM
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A.E.:

Sounds to me like what Stev wants is a hollowpoint-style round with a plastic nose cap over the cavity containing the incendiary compound.

The best IRL example that comes to mind is the Glaser Safety Slug.

Glaser Safety Slug information

--Foreigner
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Austere Emancipa...
post May 7 2005, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (Foreigner)
Sounds to me like what Stev wants is a hollowpoint-style round with a plastic nose cap over the cavity containing the incendiary compound.

If you stuff something into the hollow point, especially something relatively dense and solid like a metal-based or plasticized pyrophoric substance, you're pretty much guaranteed zero-expansion in an unarmored (meta)human body, which means the bullet will go right through your target leaving very little or no burning agent behind.

That sort of bullet would flatten against any sort of serious body armor, and the minuscule amount of the incendiary substance inside the tiny cavity in the tip of the bullet would mean there's no chance it'd burn/melt it's way through anything more than a thin layer of cloth.

Unless you mean "hollowpoint" in a more generic sense, and basically what you're getting at is just a Glaser with the bullet filled with an incendiary mixture instead of the tiny metal beads. Which is basically the exact same thing as using a "Capsule Round", as commented on above, only it get rids of part of the ridiculousness by having a jacket that can handle being fired.
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Raygun
post May 7 2005, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
I'm a fan of just, y'know, bullets. Cheaper, get the job done, aren't crazily fantastically unrealistic, aren't as easily traceable as some fancy schmancy custom round...

But everybody uses those. What fun is it to shoot people with things that everyone else shoots them with? It's just gauche, I say.
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